To Christians who aren't creationists

[Polaris]

Don't go trotting out those answersingenesis shits as an authority.

Consider that a friendly warning.

What are you referring to?

[Justtristo]

Don't go trotting out those answersingenesis shits as an authority.

Consider that a friendly warning.

What are you referring to?

Do you live on Mars may I ask?

Answers in Genesis are the Creationist outfit who have proposed to build a life size replica of Noah's ark in a theme park in Kentucky. Also they run that Creation Museum in that same state.

[Polaris]

What are you referring to?

Do you live on Mars may I ask?

Answers in Genesis are the Creationist outfit who have proposed to build a life size replica of Noah's ark in a theme park in Kentucky. Also they run that Creation Museum in that same state.

First I have heard of that...seems a bit flashy.

[Justtristo]

I believe Noah's Flood to be a localized event and actually happened because it is a common theme throughout human civilizations emanating from the Black Sea

Yes,floods are common events in mythology.However, the Noah myth seems to have been lifted from the Sumerian 'Epic of Gilgamesh'. It may or may not refer to a real event. More often than not,myths do not refer to real people or events. For that reason 'myth as history' has long been abandoned by reputable scholars.

As far as I'm aware,the fertile crescent civilisations grew inland on the Tigris and Euphrates, not the Black Sea.

I would broadly agree with you Padraic, although I want to add some points.

As Robert M Price said on many occasions stories like Noah's Flood are pretty common to societies which live in areas subject to catastrophic flooding every so often. So the flood story in Torah and Gilgamesh likely had their origin in some catastrophic flood which swept through the Tigris and Euphrates plains.

There is a odd bit in the flood story in the Torah which might point to this.

The waters swelled so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered; the waters swelled above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep.

Genesis 7:19-20 (NRSV)

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You're wrong most Christians do not believe in evolution, also I asked for a third option, you gave me a maybe at best.

I tend to agree with Godschild's statement, providing you use a certain definition to define who a Christian is. For example I know people like Godschild who don't consider the Roman Catholic church to be Christian and only concede some Catholics are Christians.

Essentially their definition of what a Christian is somebody who recognize Jesus as their Lord and Savoir and would say they will get into heaven because of Jesus death on the cross, rather than doing good works.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Essentially their definition of what a Christian is somebody who recognize Jesus as their Lord and Savoir and would say they will get into heaven because of Jesus death on the cross, rather than doing good works.

I know and I also usually recognise the no true Scotsman fallacy when I see it. Possibly because young earth creationist loons such as GC are so fond of it , but not just them, many other Christian sects are at least as stupidly arrogant.

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The waters swelled so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered; the waters swelled above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep.

Genesis 7:19-20 (NRSV)

I don't understand your point. Are you seriously citing genesis as credible evidence? As far as I'm aware there is no credible evidence to support the claim of such a flood in human history.

The Gilgamesh myth may indeed be based on a flood. However,the myth does no tell us where,when or the extent of the flood. The claim of covering a mountain to a depth of 15 cubits (22.5 feet) is not credible. ( due to the desalinisation of the sea and death of most sea life which would occur)


To people ignorant of geography,a flood to the horizon would have seemed the entire world was flooded. In fact distance the horizon can vary from as little as 2 miles to as much as about 50 miles.




00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Distance to the horizon

Ignoring the effect of atmospheric refraction, distance to the horizon from an observer close to the Earth's surface is about[5]

d \approx 3.57\sqrt{h} \,,

where d is in kilometres and h is height above sea level in metres.

Examples:

For an observer standing on the ground with h = 1.70 metres (5 ft 7 in) (average eye-level height), the horizon is at a distance of 4.7 kilometres (2.9 mi).
For an observer standing on the ground with h = 2 metres (6 ft 7 in) , the horizon is at a distance of 5 kilometres (3.1 mi).
For an observer standing on a hill or tower of 100 metres (330 ft) in height, the horizon is at a distance of 39 kilometres (24 mi).
For an observer standing at the top of the Burj Khalifa (828 metres (2,717 ft) in height), the horizon is at a distance of 111 kilometres (69 mi).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon

[Justtristo]

The waters swelled so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered; the waters swelled above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep.

Genesis 7:19-20 (NRSV)

I don't understand your point. Are you seriously citing genesis as credible evidence? As far as I'm aware there is no credible evidence to support the claim of such a flood in human history.

Actually I believe somebody took the word mound to be mean mountain, when they were inserting an earlier flood story when the book of Genesis was being complied.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Actually I believe somebody took the word mound to be mean mountain,

Credible; the word for 'mountains' in Hebrew is "har',(plural 'harim') which can also mean 'hills'.

PLUS;

There are no mountains in the southern Tigris–Euphrates valley where Noah lived, only higher or lower hills on a flat alluvial plain.The nearest mountains are beyond the horizon. Noah could have seen hills being flooded in the Euphrates valley but not mountains.

http://www.noahs-ark-flood.com/mountain.htm