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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 9:54 am
(April 29, 2012 at 9:02 am)Drich Wrote: (April 28, 2012 at 7:50 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: I have never understood if God really loves everyone and wants everyone to believe in him (or make him their lord or whatever else your spin on salvation might be) so he isn't force by his perfect justice to condemn unbelievers to an eternity in hell, why doesn't he just show himself continuously to everyone?
I know what you're already thinking. Free will, blah blah blah. Nope. What i am thinking is God does not love everone. Ask Esau, Pharroah, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, Cain, the people caught outside the Ark when the flood came, Judas, the Pharasees, and the Saducees, Ultimatly everyone who does not sin and seek redemption for it.
do you feel the Love of God?
The next question do you want to?
Well, I've never heard of any Christian say that God doesn't love everyone and your position seems to contradict John 3:16.
Would you agree that God is all-loving? An all-loving being would want no one to go to hell, but he's also all-just so he can't let unbelievers slide.
Anyway, I'm not even sure whether holding that God loves everyone or not is relevant to my main questions which every theists here has conveniently ignored:
1. Is it a person's own fault he went to hell?
2. Is it wrong for a Christian to not share the gospel?
Quote:See, when you say that a person is entirely responsible for being in hell, and that it's wrong for a Christian to not witness, you're making a big mess for yourself. Let's say for example, Bob is a nonbeliever, and Larry is a Christian. Larry and Bob are life long friends, but Larry never witnesses to him. In fact, to Bob, Larry is just as secular as he is. Bob eventually dies in his sins. At judgement day, God in effect says to Bob, "I never knew you" and cast him in the lake of fire because Bob never believed out of his free will. Larry eventually dies, God allows him into heaven because he believed but mentions "You never shared the gospel to Bob, and he never believed, and now he's in Hell. You should be ashamed of yourself! Didn't I command you to share the gospel to everyone? Anyway, here's your harp. Happy plucking!"
So which is it? Is Bob in Hell because he never believed or is he in Hell because Larry never witnessed to him? If he's in Hell because it's his own free fault, then witnessing is irrelevant. But if he's in Hell because Larry didn't witness to him, then his doom is the result of Larry not giving him enough information. It also means that it's not his fault, but someone else's.
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:02 am
Bob is in hell because he didnt believe, maybe because for whatever reason or its because Larry one day said," What do you think about Jesus." And Bob just said fuck him. Then Larry left it at that because Bob did not care, do you like us bothering you about this stuff everyday, right, and Larry cares for Bob, he may try again some day but hes not going to ruin the friendship or the possible future interactions to help Bob.
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:08 am
(April 29, 2012 at 9:49 am)C Rod Wrote: It seems working in those parameters he has given all the power to you.
Stop speaking in fucking riddles. Why is it when theists can't answer straight questions they resort to chatting absolute shyte.
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:08 am
(April 29, 2012 at 10:02 am)C Rod Wrote: Bob is in hell because he didnt believe, maybe because for whatever reason or its because Larry one day said," What do you think about Jesus." And Bob just said fuck him. Then Larry left it at that because Bob did not care, do you like us bothering you about this stuff everyday, right, and Larry cares for Bob, he may try again some day but hes not going to ruin the friendship or the possible future interactions to help Bob.
You can't just blatantly change my parable like that to suit you're own purposes! That's a completely different story. Larry is suppose to be just a coward about witnessing and Bob is suppose to be just a generally nice but unsaved guy. Just operate under my original story.
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:15 am
Who does that though? Your reasoning was bad because Larry can always help him, the very life Larry leads is a testament to Bob.
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:22 am
(April 29, 2012 at 9:02 am)Drich Wrote: (April 28, 2012 at 7:50 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: I have never understood if God really loves everyone and wants everyone to believe in him (or make him their lord or whatever else your spin on salvation might be) so he isn't force by his perfect justice to condemn unbelievers to an eternity in hell, why doesn't he just show himself continuously to everyone?
I know what you're already thinking. Free will, blah blah blah. Nope. What i am thinking is God does not love everone. Ask Esau, Pharroah, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, Cain, the people caught outside the Ark when the flood came, Judas, the Pharasees, and the Saducees, Ultimatly everyone who does not sin and seek redemption for it.
do you feel the Love of God?
The next question do you want to?
I think it's obvious your god doesn't love everyone. Rather the opposite. He hardly loves anyone and brags about it in that "love letter" called the Bible he wrote to the human race.
Matthew 7:13-14 Wrote:"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Hey thanks god, you fucking prick. Don't reveal yourself to anyone for thousands of years and then when you do, you show up in a time when nearly all of mankind is a bunch of halfwit fucktards who can't even relay the message to the next country, let alone the other hemisphere. And if that's not enough, after you show up and walk around for only half a lifetime, you then tell your sheep to tell the rest of us that if we aren't actively seeking you to your satisfaction you won't reveal yourself thereby sending us to hell.
Such a stupid religion. Sheep really is the perfect name for you people.
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:25 am
(This post was last modified: April 29, 2012 at 10:31 am by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
(April 29, 2012 at 10:15 am)C Rod Wrote: Who does that though? Your reasoning was bad because Larry can always help him, the very life Larry leads is a testament to Bob.
Um, no, in fact, in my story I said that Bob thought Larry was about as secular as he was (i.e. Larry wasn't acting like a raunchy pagan but just a general "good" person of western society). As for who does that? Lot's of people. Every church I went there wasn't a year that would go by without a preacher talking about how we need to witness to someone. "You don't want to be responsible for Bob going to hell do you? Now turn into your hymnbooks for 451, Praise Jesus the Streets Shall Run with Blood." The NT says everyone should spread the gospel (as in verbally and confrontationally, not just "leading a life" and hoping Bob catches a whiff of your saved righteousness).
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:36 am
tearlgreyhot Wrote:Now turn into your hymnbooks for 451...
Is this a 'Farenheit 451' reference?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:37 am
The church i go to, the preacher often speaks of sharing the message, inviting someone to church or your dinner or one of the community projects. Jesus said if they do not accept your message leave that town and wipe the dust from your cloak. Larry made a mistake and Bob was still never curious enough to ask or wonder so...God's judgement.
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:38 am
(April 29, 2012 at 10:37 am)C Rod Wrote: Bob was still never curious enough to ask or wonder so...God's judgement.
And who made him that way?
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