God, come out, come out wherever you are!

[Drich]

Well, I've never heard of any Christian say that God doesn't love everyone and your position seems to contradict John 3:16.

God offers Agape love. This is what is offered in John 3:16. Agape is one of the four type of love identified in the Koine Greek, set apart from the other three in that it is a conditional love based on the full fulfillment of requirements. "God Agapao the world that He gave his only son." It was required that God sacrifice His son in order to offer this form of Love. In return we are told through out the NT that we have to accept this sacrifice in order to receive and reciprocate this love. (those being the terms and conditions of the Love God offers.)

Would you agree that God is all-loving?

No, i had this discussion in my thread about the Omni aspects of God.

Again God is not all Loving. His love encompasses the Agape aspect of Love.

I accidentally erased your final questions this is what I remember:
Is it a person's fault they goto Hell? Yes We all Chose our eternal fate to one degree or another.

Is it wrong for a Christian not to share the Gospel? Absolutely yes. We have been commissioned to do so. This should be the only reason we live after accepting the Good news for ourselves.

[Welsh cake]

I have never understood if God really loves everyone and wants everyone to believe in him (or make him their lord or whatever else your spin on salvation might be) so he isn't force by his perfect justice to condemn unbelievers to an eternity in hell, why doesn't he just show himself continuously to everyone?

I've never really understood why any god would send anyone to Hell at all. Why would any sane deity send or doom mortal creatures to a realm/state of eternal torture for something so trivial as belief or lack thereof? Let alone an omnibenevolent one? No one does, hence the paradoxes that emerge. And yet, Christians keep making excuses for this all too obvious contradiction by redefining 'love', 'sin', and 'hell' to fit their particular take on the doctrine or when those fail, resorting the ultimate cop-out argument of all time: free will.

do you feel the Love of God?

No.

The next question do you want to?

The real question is "Does he want to?" because why else are you, a fellow man, asking and not the god himself?

Would you agree that God is all-loving? An all-loving being would want no one to go to hell, but he's also all-just so he can't let unbelievers slide.

As I've told Christians countless time before, he does nothing.

His infinite desire to love us and his infinite desire to punish us for our transgressions cancel each other out. I'm quite surprised Christians don't use this as an argument for explaining why their god does not interact with humanity or let his presence be know.

Or at least that's what I used to believe before I de-converted, and I wasn't even a particularly bright person.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Drich, God might not but Jesus does.

"A love as wide as the ocean, so far flung no enemy is beyond it"

---

Does all faith have to do with religion?

How can God both love and not love, unless you believe in more than one god? Yes, I know god in three persons. One can speak about such things but who can actually hold in their mind the idea of one being having two or three different relationships with humanity and acting accordingly?

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

...
Is it a person's fault they goto Hell? Yes We all Chose our eternal fate to one degree or another.

Is it wrong for a Christian not to share the Gospel? Absolutely yes. We have been commissioned to do so. This should be the only reason we live after accepting the Good news for ourselves.

Maybe I'll get back to issue of God and love. I think that the issue is superfluous for the time being so I'll focus on your answers to my two main questions.

I think it's a contradiction to hold that a person goes to hell by their free will, and that a Christian should witness. In one part, you're saying (going back to my Bob and Larry example) that Bob went to hell because of his own free will. Yet, at the same time, you're saying that Larry (by not witnessing) may have had something to do with Bob going to hell. That seems like a huge contradiction to me.

[Godscreated]

See, when you say that a person is entirely responsible for being in hell, and that it's wrong for a Christian to not witness, you're making a big mess for yourself.

I'm not making a mess for myself, I've read the rest of the post, you are trying to lay blame on Larry for Bob going to hell, it doesn't work that way, period. Scripture makes it plain that one is responsible for one's own salvation, even if they do not hear the Gospel of Christ. The premise here is that Larry and Bob live in a society where the message comes from many different sources. Bob therefore has no reason to blame anyone but Bob. Yeah, Larry was not a responsible Christian, he will have to deal with that before Christ when he dies.

Let's say for example, Bob is a nonbeliever, and Larry is a Christian. Larry and Bob are life long friends, but Larry never witnesses to him. In fact, to Bob, Larry is just as secular as he is. Bob eventually dies in his sins. At judgement day, God in effect says to Bob, "I never knew you" and cast him in the lake of fire because Bob never believed out of his free will. Larry eventually dies, God allows him into heaven because he believed but mentions "You never shared the gospel to Bob, and he never believed, and now he's in Hell. You should be ashamed of yourself! Didn't I command you to share the gospel to everyone? ......

I removed the last sentence to keep this respectable. You have stated exactly what Larry faces when he meets Christ, except Christ will not blame him because Bob is in hell, that was Bob's choice. As I said the Gospel is everywhere for Bob to hear, and yes I'm considering the premise of your little story.

So which is it? Is Bob in Hell because he never believed or is he in Hell because Larry never witnessed to him? If he's in Hell because it's his own free fault, then witnessing is irrelevant. But if he's in Hell because Larry didn't witness to him, then his doom is the result of Larry not giving him enough information. It also means that it's not his fault, but someone else's.

Bob is in hell because he either never made the effort to find out about the Gospel of Christ that was all around him (I will not assume or accept that Bob was a recluse since he saw his friend Larry living a secular life style), or he rejected what he was told or saw by and in other Christians.
Larry did not witness to him and that was wrong, there was however other opportunities. Again the scriptures make it clear that one is responsible for one's salvation. Larry is not at fault.

Now it's my turn to tell a little story, Teaearlgreyhot has a friend Sweet Tea, Sweet Tea tells Teaeralgreyhot he's going to rob a bank and Teaearlgreyhot did not tell his friend not to do it, because if he is caught he will go to jail. Sweet Tea robs the bank and is caught in the act, he's found guilty and has to go to prison, but before he leaves the court he tells the judge that his friend did not tell him it was against the law to rob the bank, and shouldn't Teaearlgreyhot have to go to jail to, if he had only told me I might not have robbed the bank. So, should Teaearlgreyhot be held accountable for the crime also.

[The Heff]

do you feel the Love of God?

Said the priest to the alterboy......

I just spat coffee all over my PC...

[Norfolk And Chance]

See, when you say that a person is entirely responsible for being in hell, and that it's wrong for a Christian to not witness, you're making a big mess for yourself.

I'm not making a mess for myself, I've read the rest of the post, you are trying to lay blame on Larry for Bob going to hell, it doesn't work that way, period. Scripture makes it plain that one is responsible for one's own salvation, even if they do not hear the Gospel of Christ. The premise here is that Larry and Bob live in a society where the message comes from many different sources. Bob therefore has no reason to blame anyone but Bob. Yeah, Larry was not a responsible Christian, he will have to deal with that before Christ when he dies.

Let's say for example, Bob is a nonbeliever, and Larry is a Christian. Larry and Bob are life long friends, but Larry never witnesses to him. In fact, to Bob, Larry is just as secular as he is. Bob eventually dies in his sins. At judgement day, God in effect says to Bob, "I never knew you" and cast him in the lake of fire because Bob never believed out of his free will. Larry eventually dies, God allows him into heaven because he believed but mentions "You never shared the gospel to Bob, and he never believed, and now he's in Hell. You should be ashamed of yourself! Didn't I command you to share the gospel to everyone? ......

I removed the last sentence to keep this respectable. You have stated exactly what Larry faces when he meets Christ, except Christ will not blame him because Bob is in hell, that was Bob's choice. As I said the Gospel is everywhere for Bob to hear, and yes I'm considering the premise of your little story.

So which is it? Is Bob in Hell because he never believed or is he in Hell because Larry never witnessed to him? If he's in Hell because it's his own free fault, then witnessing is irrelevant. But if he's in Hell because Larry didn't witness to him, then his doom is the result of Larry not giving him enough information. It also means that it's not his fault, but someone else's.

Bob is in hell because he either never made the effort to find out about the Gospel of Christ that was all around him (I will not assume or accept that Bob was a recluse since he saw his friend Larry living a secular life style), or he rejected what he was told or saw by and in other Christians.
Larry did not witness to him and that was wrong, there was however other opportunities. Again the scriptures make it clear that one is responsible for one's salvation. Larry is not at fault.

Now it's my turn to tell a little story, Teaearlgreyhot has a friend Sweet Tea, Sweet Tea tells Teaeralgreyhot he's going to rob a bank and Teaearlgreyhot did not tell his friend not to do it, because if he is caught he will go to jail. Sweet Tea robs the bank and is caught in the act, he's found guilty and has to go to prison, but before he leaves the court he tells the judge that his friend did not tell him it was against the law to rob the bank, and shouldn't Teaearlgreyhot have to go to jail to, if he had only told me I might not have robbed the bank. So, should Teaearlgreyhot be held accountable for the crime also.

Yes.

Next question.

[Drich]

The real question is "Does he want to?" because why else are you, a fellow man, asking and not the god himself?

If the President or the Queen or whomever was the most important person in your country were to invite you over for a state dinner would you also demand that he/she personally invite you, or would an invite from someone on their staff be ok?

As I've told Christians countless time before, he does nothing.
His infinite desire to love us and his infinite desire to punish us for our transgressions cancel each other out. I'm quite surprised Christians don't use this as an argument for explaining why their god does not interact with humanity or let his presence be know.

What about this: God's primary attribute is not an all encompassing love as most think. Rather we are told in the bible it is Righteousness.

---

...
Is it a person's fault they goto Hell? Yes We all Chose our eternal fate to one degree or another.

Is it wrong for a Christian not to share the Gospel? Absolutely yes. We have been commissioned to do so. This should be the only reason we live after accepting the Good news for ourselves.

Maybe I'll get back to issue of God and love. I think that the issue is superfluous for the time being so I'll focus on your answers to my two main questions.

I think it's a contradiction to hold that a person goes to hell by their free will, and that a Christian should witness. In one part, you're saying (going back to my Bob and Larry example) that Bob went to hell because of his own free will. Yet, at the same time, you're saying that Larry (by not witnessing) may have had something to do with Bob going to hell. That seems like a huge contradiction to me.

Not at all Paul explains in Romans 10.

Romans 10:
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:


“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,[h]
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”[i]

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”[j] 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

[Godscreated]

---

I have never understood if God really loves everyone and wants everyone to believe in him (or make him their lord or whatever else your spin on salvation might be) so he isn't force by his perfect justice to condemn unbelievers to an eternity in hell, why doesn't he just show himself continuously to everyone?

I know what you're already thinking. Free will, blah blah blah.

---

Nope. What i am thinking is God does not love everone. Ask Esau, Pharroah, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, Cain, the people caught outside the Ark when the flood came, Judas, the Pharasees, and the Saducees, Ultimatly everyone who does not sin and seek redemption for it.

I'm not sure how you can say this, God is love, He loves all, it is God's desire that everyone come to know Christ and have eternal salvation. God says He hates the actions of man not man himself, why would God give life to those He would hate. Pharoah had many chances, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah only needed five good people, the people outside the Ark were preached to by Noah for 100 years, Cain killed his brother and then mocked God, judgement fell upon them, not hate.

[Drich]

I'm not sure how you can say this, God is love, He loves all, it is God's desire that everyone come to know Christ and have eternal salvation.

Do you understand the word love in the English does not translate to any one specific word in the Greek? There are four words in the Greek that all get translated into the word Love in the English. These four words have four separate meanings. The Word Agape' is used when ever speaking of the type of Love God has for man. This love by definition so conditional.

So how can i say God is not Omni Benevolent? Because the bible clearly states that God's love is conditional.

However that does not mean He wants to see people perish, that said He will hold us to our decisions if the conditions of the Agape' love He offers has not been met.

God says He hates the actions of man not man himself, why would God give life to those He would hate.

Agape has nothing to do with feelings like hate.

Pharaoh had many chances, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah only needed five good people, the people outside the Ark were preached to by Noah for 100 years, Cain killed his brother and then mocked God, judgment fell upon them, not hate.

Again blind feeling/emotion has nothing to do with this form of love.

Do a search on the four words of love in the ancient Greek.
if you want a more complete understanding of what I am discussing.