God, come out, come out wherever you are!

[Ryft]

[Cinjin]

And were you born under the very same circumstance, and wait what is the difference between you and me, it couldn't be understanding and desire.

Sarcasm is fun, I use it often, but it won't win your argument for you - as it never does for me either.

You don't comment on the next part. You assume without proof that you are for sure going to hell.

I'm only concluding this fact because of what YOUR bible says. It is you who avoids commenting on my points, not the other way around. Address this point: According to your Bible and literally hundreds of thousand of Christians, your god is sending billions of souls to hell. And you sir, essentially bragged about it.

And that it is His fault and that you were born and then magically appeared in hell. Your skipping your whole life which is a testament and proof to who you are and what you did.

I'm not skipping that portion at all. Rather I note that portion the most. Your god is "magically" sending me to hell for not believing he exists in this current lifetime --NOT because of my immoral lifestyle. He's punishing billions of people for being wrong thinkers not wrong doers. It's really the ultimate injustice. I know you think we non-believers go around raping, robbing and killing people. But it's just not true. I live a very moral life and have no wish to wrong anyone at any time.

That does not go unnoticed, and is so very important if you do not believe in Christ. Your life without Christ and faith was your reward and you received it in full.

I received my reward of being allowed to live in full. How nice ... only to be tortured for all eternity. Then to add insult to injury, you go and tell me it's my fault for simply not believing. NOT for doing horrible things mind you ... but for not believing. I love how you Christians twist the words of the Bible around to say that I somehow cast myself into hell. What a god damn joke. Your god is the only one with the power to cast people into the hell that HE created. According to you it is your god that makes sure that me and billions of others like me are going to be punished for all eternity ... and for what??? Not believing he exists? for some people - not ever have even heard of him?? For WHAT?!?! For being born??? I suppose I've watched a few R-rated movies and got drunk a few times ... do I deserve to be burned eternally for that???? You talk about this life that I skipped over as if I've been trying to omit all the horrible things I've done during my 30+ years. What exactly is god sending me to hell for???? I'll tell you. He's sending me to hell because I'm a wrong thinker ... not a wrong doer. And the most insulting part of that is, that the most vile criminal on this planet can accept Jesus before he dies and he'll get to spend eternity in paradise simply because your god is clearly a narcissistic self-absorbed dick bag.


Well, not really. We all know your god doesn't exist and we have nothing to worry about. Clearly.

I don't see how God can be responsible for one and not the other. If God is responsible for us getting into heaven, then God is also responsible for us not getting into heaven. Not going to heaven means going to hell, which would make God responsible.

1. We should probably avoid, as best we can, conflating proximate moral responsibility and final causal responsibility.

2. God is indeed responsible for these getting into heaven and those not getting into heaven—but not in the same way. The former is active, the latter is passive. (There is an extreme view out there which posits that God is just as actively involved in keeping some out of heaven as he is in getting others into heaven. It is a fractional minority for a reason: the view is indefensible and reprehensible.)

point made.

[Welsh cake]

The "IQ" of this thread has nosedived. None of the Christians can agree on a single issue about the deity they believe in. The 'message' of their theology is confounded.

Well, Godschild said it right when he mentioned he didn't come here to convert people. That's clearly beyond any of these theists' capabilities.

Christianity's worst enemy is itself in many ways. Like Ghandi said, "I love their Jesus but not their Christians". A lot of crap has been done in the name of Christianity.

I agree.

Foreknowledge is not predetermination. Just because God has foreknowledge of all history, and that history will come to pass, doesn't pose a problem for free will. The individuals in that history are free to make their decision as they see fit. Notice decision is in the singular, one decision that all are free to make, salvation. Outside of salvation it's ultimately up to God, through His will.

So regarding those who wind up in Hell, they're there because god simply didn't care all that much about them? That the fate of their "souls" was neglected by the one who knew they were going to be in danger and yet that one did nothing?

Or are you saying he didn't neglect them but every person has multiple chances to avoid removing themselves from god's grace?

Back up a second, you're the type of Christian that believes god does not love everyone correct? So it is neglect and both parties, the sinner and god, are both to blame for the 'wastage' of soul?

Or maybe god's having a recession in Heaven and is simply trimming the fat and tightening up the belt ready for massive cuts mentioned in his "love budget" what do you think?

[Godscreated]

[Ryft]

The "IQ" of this thread has nose-dived.

What do you make of that, Tegh? Nice, huh? And here I thought our conversation was rather intelligent. Oh well.

None of the Christians can agree on a single issue about the deity they believe in. The 'message' of their theology is confounded.

Not exactly a rational conclusion there, an incompetent broad brush that I find embarrassing on your behalf. There are so many issues relevant to why there is disagreement about God that your sweeping dismissal conveniently ignores. It also indefensibly assumes that we all have the same theology, and even the same deity, when it is blatantly clear to any literate person that we simply do not. You just carelessly assume that all Christians are the same, all worship the same God, and all have the same theology, when the evidence to the contrary is stacked heavily against such an incompetent broad brush.

Is there not a skeptic anywhere in this forum who would call you out on such a dereliction of reason?

[...cue sound of crickets...]

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

The "IQ" of this thread has nose-dived.

What do you make of that, Tegh? Nice, huh? And here I thought our conversation was rather intelligent. Oh well.

I don't know. I just wish the conversation would stay on topic.

I'm still working on my reply to you btw. I'm having to deal with Godschild's response to me too and that new guy with the mario avatar (can't remember his name).

[Ryft]

Take your time, Tegh. I am very patient. Even if it takes you two or three days to get back to me, I'll still see it eventually.

[Engel]

[Godscreated]

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]