Banning the Burqa?

[Creed of Heresy]

I kind of agree with Min on an emotional level but alas, this is the US. There shouldn't be a federal law banning it anywhere outside of federal institutions.

If people start murdering other people with burkas, well then, we'll deal with that as it comes, yeah?

[Tiberius]

Yes, an item of clothing that covers your face.
People can dress how they want, but when it's something that covers your face, it's a different issue.

Why? This clearly isn't an issue when we are dealing with crash helmets, skiing goggles, etc. Quit pretending this is about concealing your face because it simply isn't. It's about islamophobia.

I don't see any flaw in my argument, i do however see the flaw in your reply.

Yet you don't ever point out the flaw in my reply.

What i'm saying is that it just makes it so much harder for people to identify someone who has something covering their face.

Yes, but criminals have been covering their faces for years. This isn't a new thing. Why have you suddenly decided that this is a problem? Why have you focused your entire argument on burkas? Your inconsistency betrays your inherent islamophobia.

I'm not saying ban the burqa so it can be easier to catch criminals, i'm saying it's better to ban the burqa, as a matter of fact, all things covering your face, so that we can identify people alot easier, and in some cases identify them at all.

I don't want to be identified sometimes; nor do a lot of people. We have a basic right to privacy that allows us to do this, but in other cases there are more personal reasons. For example, some people are badly burned and wear masks to cover up their scars; would you deny their right to do this? How far would you take this "ban all things covering your face" anyway? Would beards be banned too? What about long hair, dark glasses, etc?

If everyone covered their faces, then no doubt there would be alot of killings without catching people.

Bullshit. I demand you present evidence to back up this statement. Facial identification is just one aspect that can be used to trace criminals, but it is unreliable for many reasons:

1) A lot of crimes (especially killings) take place in non-public places, where cameras are absent.
2) Even with CCTV, pictures are often grainy and key facial features are left down to guesswork.
3) Lots of people have very similar facial features, meaning that because of (2), you get a load of false positives.

This is why whilst CCTV evidence is nice, as are witness descriptions, you are more likely to catch a criminal by the DNA evidence they leave behind, or by other more identifiable things (i.e. the car they are driving).

[Reforged]

Yeah, I think you'd have to ban anything that almost completely and unnecessarily covers your face otherwise you're being biased and then you're on very dodgy ground.
Exceptions would obviously be made for crash helmets although I'm not sure how it'd effect halloween and other special occasions.
Other than that it'd be legally and ethically sound.

[Shell B]

I just want to point out that criminals are often caught on other details. Faces are good to see in robberies, sure. In murders? More often than not, the only witness is dead. A face doesn't fucking matter. Murder weapons, DNA and placement at the scene via scheduling, car, etc., are far more helpful.

[Mystic]

No they shouldn't ban burqas.

[Annik]

I have to agree with Tiberius on this one.

[Minimalist]

I kind of agree with Min on an emotional level but alas, this is the US. There shouldn't be a federal law banning it anywhere outside of federal institutions.

If people start murdering other people with burkas, well then, we'll deal with that as it comes, yeah?

Nah, you missed the point Creed. When I say I am tired of religious fucks it simply means that I am tired of religious fucks. It has nothing to do with crime.

Fuck 'em.

[KichigaiNeko]

Why? This clearly isn't an issue when we are dealing with crash helmets, skiing goggles, etc. Quit pretending this is about concealing your face because it simply isn't. It's about islamophobia.

Sorry Tiberius Not scared of Islam/ Judaism or Christianity......but the wearing of Motorcycle Helmets, Balaclavas, Hoodies (yes fucking hoodies jackets) and sunglasses are banned in government public places and shops/ service stations...Don't even THINK you can get into a bank let alone approach the desk with one of these "items of clothing" unless of course you are wearing a full burqa with niqab then that's ok.

Actually you will be asked (politely) to remove you face covering here in Australia. You want to advertise Sheridan Sheeting material that's fine ...cover your face and you are a criminal.

[kılıç_mehmet]

What do you all think?

Ban it.

Anyone who wants to wear one can go back to the desert where such shit is mandated.

I'm tired of these religious fucks.

Ban it where?

[Tiberius]

Sorry Tiberius Not scared of Islam/ Judaism or Christianity......but the wearing of Motorcycle Helmets, Balaclavas, Hoodies (yes fucking hoodies jackets) and sunglasses are banned in government public places and shops/ service stations...Don't even THINK you can get into a bank let alone approach the desk with one of these "items of clothing" unless of course you are wearing a full burqa with niqab then that's ok.

That may be your own personal justification, but as I noted before, this guy wants to ban them everywhere. We don't ban helmets everywhere; in fact, in some places it is illegal *not* to wear one. Still, the question of whether helmets, balaclavas, and burkas should be banned needs addressing. I'm personally against it, for the simple reason that it doesn't actually do anything. Banning people from wearing a burka in a bank is like banning people from taking a gun into a bank. If you do that, then the only people who will ignore the ban are criminals, and they were the people who the law was aimed at. Banning something which criminals use to commit crimes ensures that only criminals will have it. It does absolutely nothing. It is a waste of a law.

Actually you will be asked (politely) to remove you face covering here in Australia. You want to advertise Sheridan Sheeting material that's fine ...cover your face and you are a criminal.

Which is a ridiculous conclusion to make. By all means, if someone comes into a bank with a face covering, take caution. Have security on alert (as if they should ever not be), but wait until something happens before accusing the person of being a criminal. Maybe they just want to take some money out, as an honest customer. It is far more likely that they are not a criminal (criminals make up a very small percentage of the population), so stop treating them like one.