Question About Creationists

[Cyberman]

The proof of the chromosome fusion is right there at the end of the link I gave you. Carry on calling it all a fantasy if you like but just be aware that you are divorcing yourself from reality by doing so. It's like if I were to claim that the only landmass on the face of the Earth was the British Isles and that all evidence to the contrary is just a conspiracy of cartographers. It's not another interpretation of the evidence, or correcting perceived false conclusions. It's just factually wrong, plain and simple.

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Enjoy your boner, Annik.

[Abishalom]

The proof of the chromosome fusion is right there at the end of the link I gave you. Carry on calling it all a fantasy if you like but just be aware that you are divorcing yourself from reality by doing so. It's like if I were to claim that the only landmass on the face of the Earth was the British Isles and that all evidence to the contrary is just a conspiracy of cartographers. It's not another interpretation of the evidence, or correcting perceived false conclusions. It's just factually wrong, plain and simple.

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Enjoy your boner, Annik.

The point is that the fusion of the telomere does not prove common ancestry of apes and humans. You're ignoring the fact that we do not know the function of over 97% of the human genome despite having it sequenced. Why is this significant? Because if you cannot determine the function of said chromosome then you cannot make claims that said organisms share a common ancestor. There lies the fantasy aspect of this claim...

[popeyespappy]

[Paul the Human]

[Cyberman]

It's more than simply a claim (and I'm not the one who made it). It's actual peer-reviewed and published research; y'know, sciency stuff. I actually couldn't care less what the function of that 97% is. In fact, let's raise that to 100%. I am not myself an evolutionary biologist - my personal field is astronomy - however I can read and I do in fact enjoy learning from people whose knowledge outstrips mine (which is sort of the point, really). Try doing what I did; dig around some of the research papers. Hell, there's videos of this stuff being presented at lectures.

[Abishalom]

It's more than simply a claim (and I'm not the one who made it). It's actual peer-reviewed and published research; y'know, sciency stuff. I actually couldn't care less what the function of that 97% is. In fact, let's raise that to 100%. I am not myself an evolutionary biologist - my personal field is astronomy - however I can read and I do in fact enjoy learning from people whose knowledge outstrips mine (which is sort of the point, really). Try doing what I did; dig around some of the research papers. Hell, there's videos of this stuff being presented at lectures.

I've done some reading on this issue. That's where I got my information from. All scientists are doing to make this claim is using observed events and stretching them to fit their imagination. It goes a little like this...since there is evidence of telomere fusion in chromosome 2 for humans and none for said chromosomes in apes this suggests common ancestry of apes/humans. Do you see the faulty logic? A single fusion incident has never been documented to make such drastic changes in organisms. Also, you're underestimating the implications of the vast amount of unknown of the human genome function. Don't worry the scientists that are making these claims are doing the same thing (they did the same thing with the field of genetics in the first place)...

[Phil]

Some people are so stupid if they think they can learn anything about genetics from AIG, The Discovery Institute, Michael Behe, William Dembski and possibly Wikipedia. If someone is so stupid to think the only evidence for the human-ape common ancestry is the chromosome fusion, they have no right wasting the oxygen of the rest of the human population.

[Abishalom]

Some people are so stupid if they think they can learn anything about genetics from AIG, The Discovery Institute, Michael Behe, William Dembski and possibly Wikipedia. If someone is so stupid to think the only evidence for the human-ape common ancestry is the chromosome fusion, they have no right wasting the oxygen of the rest of the human population.

Some people are so stupid if they think that the argument presented was extracted from said resources. If someone is so stupid to think there is actual evidence to support common descent...well even the ignorant deserve to live so there's plenty of oxygen to go around.

[libalchris]

Some people are so stupid if they think they can learn anything about genetics from AIG, The Discovery Institute, Michael Behe, William Dembski and possibly Wikipedia. If someone is so stupid to think the only evidence for the human-ape common ancestry is the chromosome fusion, they have no right wasting the oxygen of the rest of the human population.

Some people are so stupid if they think that the argument presented was extracted from said resources. If someone is so stupid to think there is actual evidence to support common descent...well even the ignorant deserve to live so there's plenty of oxygen to go around.

It's always funny when people keep denying the evidence that's there.

Such as the fossil record: (australopithecus, homo erectus, homo habilis, homo neanderthalensis)
the developmental evidence (like the fact that embryos go through a stage where they become covered in hair called lanugo that serves no purpose and is eventually reabsorbed, but in other primates stays and goes on to become the primate's full coat of hair)
the DNA evidence (shared ERVs, ALUs, pseudogenes, the fusion of Chromosome 2)

Also, the point isn't that we do or don't know what every bit of DNA in chimps and humans does, the point is that the fused chromosome in humans, are the same chromosomes that were missing from chimp chromosomes. We don't need to know what every bit of the chromosome does for that to be true

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I've done some reading on this issue. That's where I got my information from. All scientists are doing to make this claim is using observed events and stretching them to fit their imagination. It goes a little like this...since there is evidence of telomere fusion in chromosome 2 for humans and none for said chromosomes in apes this suggests common ancestry of apes/humans. Do you see the faulty logic? A single fusion incident has never been documented to make such drastic changes in organisms. Also, you're underestimating the implications of the vast amount of unknown of the human genome function. Don't worry the scientists that are making these claims are doing the same thing (they did the same thing with the field of genetics in the first place)...

You're correct, nobody said that the chromosomal fusion was what made us so different from chimps, it is just what helped start the divergence. And as I said in my last post, not knowing what all the DNA does doesn't have any implication for the chromosomal fusion. Why the heck would it? You never explained that.

[Abishalom]

Some people are so stupid if they think that the argument presented was extracted from said resources. If someone is so stupid to think there is actual evidence to support common descent...well even the ignorant deserve to live so there's plenty of oxygen to go around.

It's always funny when people keep denying the evidence that's there.

Such as the fossil record: (australopithecus, homo erectus, homo habilis, homo neanderthalensis)
the developmental evidence (like the fact that embryos go through a stage where they become covered in hair called lanugo that serves no purpose and is eventually reabsorbed, but in other primates stays and goes on to become the primate's full coat of hair)
the DNA evidence (shared ERVs, ALUs, pseudogenes, the fusion of Chromosome 2)

Also, the point isn't that we do or don't know what every bit of DNA in chimps and humans does, the point is that the fused chromosome in humans, are the same chromosomes that were missing from chimp chromosomes. We don't need to know what every bit of the chromosome does for that to be true

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My argument was against human/ape evolution based on the telomere fusion claim. You know the one that says humans evolved from an ape with 24 chromosomes because we have 23 chromosomes and a fused chromosome 2. I do not deny the "evidence" just the claims being made that are not consistent with the facts. You seem to have a problem differentiating the two...

I've done some reading on this issue. That's where I got my information from. All scientists are doing to make this claim is using observed events and stretching them to fit their imagination. It goes a little like this...since there is evidence of telomere fusion in chromosome 2 for humans and none for said chromosomes in apes this suggests common ancestry of apes/humans. Do you see the faulty logic? A single fusion incident has never been documented to make such drastic changes in organisms. Also, you're underestimating the implications of the vast amount of unknown of the human genome function. Don't worry the scientists that are making these claims are doing the same thing (they did the same thing with the field of genetics in the first place)...

You're correct, nobody said that the chromosomal fusion was what made us so different from chimps, it is just what helped start the divergence. And as I said in my last post, not knowing what all the DNA does doesn't have any implication for the chromosomal fusion. Why the heck would it? You never explained that.

I never claimed knowledge of the DNA function (or better yet lack thereof) affected chromosomal fusion, so that's a misunderstanding on your part. However, it DOES affect the accuracy of said claim, which is being sold as "fact".