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everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
#51
RE: everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
(May 25, 2012 at 11:20 pm)jackman Wrote: for me, it's not only that it paints a negative view, it's that i'm new to being around other atheists at all, so i'm learning what terms mean and how people communicate their lack of beliefs as well as how theists came to believe what they believe. it's a learning deal for me. once the general convo degrades to solely name-calling, there will be nothing more of value to me and i'll be gone. never was much of a groupie anyway, i do my own thing.

I like that. You seem real and I'm not much of a groupie either. I trust people who find their own way. Take your time.
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#52
RE: everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
Quote:Did you know your now solely responsible for me asking every female member on the forum if they'd like a pipe and promptly getting slapped and/or laid?

I'm responsible for YOUR actions? How does that work?

Getting laid? Of course you're aware that fellatio is not really sex? President Bill Clinton said so,and an entire generation of American boys is eternally grateful.Tiger
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#53
RE: everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
(May 25, 2012 at 6:36 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Oh indeed, Aiza? Do not get me wrong, there were many that opposed him but yes, yes the Catholic Church DID support the nazis.
"Some members of Catholic clergy" != The Catholic Church itself. Sure, some individual Catholics went against the Vatican's politics and supported the Nazis. Sure. But the Vatican itself, Pope Pius XII, saved thousands to hundreds of thousands of Jewish people and denounced the Nazis and Nazi racialist politics openly long before Europe even went to war with them (before the US had itself abandoned our racial poitics). The worst you can say is taht they stopped being very "loud" by the time they were surrounded by fascist Italy. That is not "supporting" Nazism.

Quote:So yes, while there are not many listings of atheists being specifically targeted, the term heresy is often used to encompass "non-belief," and atheism WOULD fall into that category.
Nope. Heresy is specifically defined by Catholics as retaining faith in Christ, but altering some other known truth of the Church. Protestants are a group that were once known as "heretics", though now the term used is "separated brethren". Heresy is distinct from apostacy, in which a Christian leaves the faith for paganism or Islam or yes, atheism. (And of course if you are a life-long atheist you are not even an apostate)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm

St. Thomas discusses as much himself.

Maybe there were secret atheists who were driven underground during the Middle Ages, similarly to how many religious groups have had to react to persecution. Unlike religious though none of them were ever caught, so what we have is a centuries old theoretical persecution that could have happened of which the death toll is 0. Yep.
Quote:In the US, states with highest percentages of atheists have lower murder rates and religious states have higher ones.
This is meaningless, because in order to make a genuine comparison between religious and irreligious you need to control for location.

And no I did not pull it out of my ass Rolleyes please see

"In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. "
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/cont...61/12/2303

"Relative to their peers, religious youth are less likely to engage in behaviors that compromise their health (e.g., carrying weapons, getting into fights, drinking and driving) "
http://heb.sagepub.com/content/25/6/721.short

(May 25, 2012 at 6:45 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: If you agree it's unfair to hold something we had nothing to do with and can't change and think was wrong over us; perhaps you could let it drop.
OK then? The only reason I even brought it up was because it is probably one of the largest factors in anti-atheist sentiment, just like 9-11 or the "War on Terror" are the largest factors in Islamophobia. Maybe my tone was more accusatory than I intended.
Quote:Leaving out atheist Jews and Soviet communists for obvious reasons, I only know of Max Sievers, the chairman of the German Freethinkers League after Hitler outlawed all atheistic and freethinking groups in Germany.
Max Sievers actually was a Soviet Communist (as in the type of government he advocated), as such he was executed for treason, not atheism.
Mister Agenda Wrote:We're not trying to say it. That's what researchers are telling us.
No, thats what sensationalist news headlines say.
Mister Agenda Wrote:I find it rich that you have the nerve to express concern about shocked and nasty comments when religous people in several countries are being murdered over their beliefs, right after chiding atheists for complaining about the equivalent of shocked or nasty comments (and death threats) and a degree of social alienation.
I only expressed any sort of concern at all when I was directly asked.
Mister Agenda Wrote:Unlike the Aztec priests, the Inquisitors were Christians. We're not communists. See the difference?
What? Yes, the Inquisitors shared a religion with me, just like various state atheist regimes (both communist and not) share a religion (or lack thereof) with you. Communism is an economic/political theory. The Inquisitors were probably monarchists, and I am not a monarchist. Why do you lump all Christians together regardless of economic/political views, but for atheists its OK to subdivide them based on their economic/political views? Do you not see the hyporisy?

Inquisition:Christians::State Atheism:Atheists
Mister Agenda Wrote:Considering how many Orthodox churches were left alone, it sounds like Stalin may have been at a loss as to how to deal with threats to the regime. To the casual observer it looks like Christianity was tolerated under the Soviets provided it supported the regime.
Less than 500 Orthodox Churches, out of 29,584, survived the period between 1927-1940, and I don't think many of them were "left alone".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution...viet_Union

But yes, the state atheism of say, Cambodia or Albania makes the USSR look tame in comparison.

(May 25, 2012 at 5:20 pm)Annik Wrote: @Aiza: Look into some stats about the prison population, sorted by religion. You might be surprised.

I have many times. The US government does not track prison population by religious affiliation, but in nations which do, such as Scotland, those without religion are quite overrepresented.

I already know you are probably thinking of a 1997 email forward which tries to say atheists are .2% of the prison population.
1) Its not anywhere on any official government website, so its origins are rather specious
2) It is from 1997, so its already 15 years out of date.
3) Its actually edited down so that way they counted the people who answered "none" separately from those who answered "atheist"...and as any atheist can tell you, atheism is not a religion at all. When "nones" are factored in, we are left with 20%.
http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html

But like I said, since it is from such dubious origins I prefer looking at nations with official tallies, like Scotland, which has
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/...064616.pdf
34.1% of the prison population having no religion as of 2007, compared with:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/14_11_05_bbc_faith.pdf
19% of the general population.

And I'd be willing to say they are even more overrepresented in terms of new arrivals, since religious people do devote themselves a lot to ministering to those in prison (and as far as I know atheists not so much), so some atheists (famously Ted Bundy) convert while in prison.

Not that it matters though.

(May 25, 2012 at 6:17 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Atheism is a lack of belief. They did not believe in your interpretation so your kind butchered and tortured them along with anyone who decided they didn't believe any interpretation.
REALLY? You said 'they" so lets see you name two. Name two atheists "butchered and tortured". If you can't do it lets see you name one atheist who was "butchered and tortured" since they didn't believe in "my" interpretation. Name ONE.

Its fair enough to talk about unfair non-violent forms of prejudice, but just reading your post you have very little room to complain about the prejudice of others when you sound so hateful yourself.
Mary Immaculate, star of the morning
Chosen before the creation began
Chosen to bring for your bridal adorning
Woe to the serpent and rescue to man.

Sinners, we honor your sinless perfection;
Fallen and weak, for your pity we plead;
Grand us the shield of your sovereign protection,
Measure your aid by the depth of our need.

Bend from your throne at the voice of our crying,
Bend to this earth which your footsteps have trod;
Stretch out your arms to us, living and dying,
Mary Immaculate, Mother of God.


Heart
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#54
RE: everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discriminat...t_atheists
[Image: SigBarSping_zpscd7e35e1.png]
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#55
RE: everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
(May 25, 2012 at 5:35 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: Theists have got to give the whole Stalin, Hitler shit thing a rest. Hitler was a Catholic end of! The others were atheists but were also corrupt communist dictators acting on their political stance. They killed atheists too, that's a fact.
Besides, how can you kill for a lack of theism? Atheism simply means without theism. What point would there be to kill for a lack of belief?

Until you can prove that atheists are evil, violent, immoral baby eaters or whatever......kindly piss off.

Has anyone mentioned that Stalin was on the way to becoming a russian orthodox priest yet?



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#56
RE: everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
downbeatplumb [hide' Wrote: dateline='1338025779']
(May 25, 2012 at 5:35 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: Theists have got to give the whole Stalin, Hitler shit thing a rest. Hitler was a Catholic end of! The others were atheists but were also corrupt communist dictators acting on their political stance. They killed atheists too, that's a fact.
Besides, how can you kill for a lack of theism? Atheism simply means without theism. What point would there be to kill for a lack of belief?

Until you can prove that atheists are evil, violent, immoral baby eaters or whatever......kindly piss off.
[/hide]

Has anyone mentioned that Stalin was on the way to becoming a russian orthodox priest yet?


No apparently everyone has missed THAT little tidbit of information
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#57
RE: everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
(May 26, 2012 at 10:06 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:
downbeatplumb [hide' Wrote: dateline='1338025779']
[/hide]

Has anyone mentioned that Stalin was on the way to becoming a russian orthodox priest yet?


No apparently everyone has missed THAT little tidbit of information

Do I detect sarcasm.

It is a long thread I had better things to do than trawl al through it.

Anyhoo.

Quote:At age 14, Stalin was sent by his mother to Tiflis Theological Seminary in what is now Tbilisi, Georgia. Young Joseph had earned a scholarship there and intended on eventually becoming a priest in the Georgian Orthodox Church

Didn't quite work out, apparently he left before his finals, none the less, he was a church trained psychopath.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#58
RE: everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
(May 26, 2012 at 10:16 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(May 26, 2012 at 10:06 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: No apparently everyone has missed THAT little tidbit of information

Do I detect sarcasm.

It is a long thread I had better things to do than trawl al through it.

Anyhoo.

Quote:At age 14, Stalin was sent by his mother to Tiflis Theological Seminary in what is now Tbilisi, Georgia. Young Joseph had earned a scholarship there and intended on eventually becoming a priest in the Georgian Orthodox Church

Didn't quite work out, apparently he left before his finals, none the less, he was a church trained psychopath.

Marvellous!! another person who wants to read sarcasm and derision into my posts!!

Seriously mate I couldn't give a tinkers toss. It is past history and has small relevance today. What happened then is interesting but how we are NOW is vital imho. And no I have not heard that Stalin was heading to priesthood.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#59
RE: everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
Then I do appologise most humbly, I am possibly a tad touchy at the moment (family problems)



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#60
RE: everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists
(May 26, 2012 at 10:25 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Then I do appologise most humbly, I am possibly a tad touchy at the moment (family problems)

No sweat DBP..everyone seems to be a bit "touchy" atm... just letting you know that I am not one of them and I am NOT playing that game.

How is it with you and your corner of this planet?? Heart
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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