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RE: Atheists and suicide
June 9, 2012 at 4:43 pm
Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:I am not sure about this condlstruct of "inherent meaning". It seems to me to be another theist mental trap. I find plenty of what could be termed as mraning in my life. Life is what one makes of it.
I do believe that inherent meaning is a big draw to religion. After all, thinking that an all-powerful deity has you best interests at heart is enticing.
You say that 'life is what one makes of it,' which I agree with, but an atheist must first answer the questions of 'can my life have meaning' and 'does my life have meaning' before he/she can get to that step. Some people get stuck on those questions their whole lives, so my point is that the atheist has to overcome more existential hurdles, if you will.
Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:I enjoy living, and I would never consider suicide as a "way out" of hard times.
I am not even sure about it for myself in the context of euthanasia. I like being alive too much ...
Many people that commit suicide like being alive too, however, it's a matter of the pain vs. the pleasure you get out of life. What they really want is to be alive and free of pain, but if that pain becomes too overwhelming, they will opt for the next best things, which is to enter the oblivion through death.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Atheists and suicide
June 9, 2012 at 5:21 pm
(June 9, 2012 at 3:50 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: (June 9, 2012 at 3:32 pm)Tempus Wrote: I've entertained the idea for a while that the more intelligent the person is the more prone they are to depression. I have no idea how this idea tracks reality (if at all). Since higher intelligence is correlated with atheism, it could be that intelligence is causing both depression and atheism. Though again, I haven't any idea whether that's actually the case or not and I have yet to read the study you've linked to. I'll give it a look and I might post again.
It could have something to do with that fact that when you understand reality and uncover the truth about it, you notice how cold and hard it is. The truth often is cold and hard and lies tend to be reassuring, pleasant, desirable ect,ect.
That's just my thought on the matter.
This reminded me of the Total Perspective Vortex from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. The most horrible torture device for a sentient being, it gives you one momentary glimpse of the entire unimaginable infinity of creation, and somewhere in it a tiny little mark, a microscopic dot on a microscopic dot, which says, "You are here."
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. - J.R.R Tolkien
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RE: Atheists and suicide
June 9, 2012 at 5:29 pm
(June 9, 2012 at 1:54 pm)StatCrux Wrote: I've sometimes wondered if suicide rates are higher amongst atheists, once ultimate meaning in life is removed suicide can be rationalized. Interesting little article I found.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article....urnalID=13
Not surprising in any way. For me personally, when I stopped believing in God, I became quite depressed for some time, but not suicidal, the opposite actually. I never had a trouble with my "meaning in life." I just enjoyed life so much, I didn't want it to end. So basically, I was actually just depressed that I would someday die and never wake up, and the solution to that is hardly suicide lol.
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RE: Atheists and suicide
June 9, 2012 at 5:31 pm
Well if we're going to be pedantic about this, one could argue that existence of anything for the sake of it is - by definition - pointless. Whether atheist or otherwise, it's just sometimes the truth hurts, and those without the belief in an afterlife will naturally have a much tougher time dealing with it.
In the words of Frankie Boyle, we are all essentially a bunch of highly-evolved monkeys clinging to a rock which is flying through space at thousands of miles per hour, and the rock itself is dying.
Frankly, it's best to not worry about such things; our "meaningless lives" are too short. 
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RE: Atheists and suicide
June 9, 2012 at 5:37 pm
I actually think religion itself can be to blame for higher suicide rates in atheists. Religion promises people so much: love from the creator of the universe, eternal life, eternal happiness, no more suffering, being able to see loved ones again, and so much more. It promises people so much, and then when they learn none of it's true, it's all ripped from their hand. How do you expect people to react to that? I bet you that atheists who were never religious don't have higher suicide rates.
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RE: Atheists and suicide
June 9, 2012 at 6:04 pm
I wonder if any of this disparity in numbers has to do with false or non-reporting due to cultural taboos?
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RE: Atheists and suicide
June 9, 2012 at 6:14 pm
A reasonable question. I'm not aware of any studies on the topic, though I would not be surprised if there were.
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RE: Atheists and suicide
June 9, 2012 at 6:31 pm
Is StatCrux still trying to make out atheists to be inferior while making himself look like a complete twat in the process, again?
Figures. >.>
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RE: Atheists and suicide
June 10, 2012 at 12:56 am
(June 9, 2012 at 1:54 pm)StatCrux Wrote: I've sometimes wondered if suicide rates are higher amongst atheists, once ultimate meaning in life is removed suicide can be rationalized. Interesting little article I found.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article....urnalID=13
Oh dear, another fatuous comment from a fatuous theist.
A/ How is this evidence for god.
B/ Your "ultimate meaning" is a crock, since according to your ridiculous book, gods purpose for us is to worship and praise him constantly for the rest of eternity(which indicates self esteem issues).
If this our "ultimate meaning" then no thanks.
![[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo112%2Fpussinboots_photos%2FBikes%2Fmybannerglitter06eee094.gif)
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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RE: Atheists and suicide
June 10, 2012 at 2:44 am
(June 9, 2012 at 5:37 pm)libalchris Wrote: I actually think religion itself can be to blame for higher suicide rates in atheists. Religion promises people so much: love from the creator of the universe, eternal life, eternal happiness, no more suffering, being able to see loved ones again, and so much more. It promises people so much, and then when they learn none of it's true, it's all ripped from their hand. How do you expect people to react to that? I bet you that atheists who were never religious don't have higher suicide rates.
Hm! That's an interesting idea. I remember I used to believe in all sorts of things that didn't make sense. At the time I called myself an "agnostic" (I was actually an agnostic atheist). Nonetheless I believed in things like objective beauty (whatever that means), eternal love, some sort of afterlife, probably fate and some karma-esque stuff too. I was never theistic though. Eventually when these ideas fell apart due to my own introspection it was devastating. So I can imagine that people who never had these ideas to begin with don't feel that; to them it's always been the case. They never experience the bitter internal fight to maintain the status quo. The truth certainly can be delivered in a cruel manner.
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