Do you think that without religion the crusades would have never happened?

[Coolmogo]

When people talk about the evils of religion the crusades allways come up. But recently I've been thinking about it and have started to believe that it was more of cultural difference than a religious one that ignited the wars with religion as an excuse to go land plundering. Do you think if the Arabs and the Europeans both had the same religion (say, they were both atheist nations) there would have still been a war. I think its likely so.

On the flip side one could also argue that 'God', or more their intense belief in him, inspired them to commit the horrible atrocities such as the mass executions on both sides. I don't know a huge ammount about the crusades and so I'm interested what you guys have to say. I am fully prepared to be corrected.

[Giff]

You have a point, and I myself think pretty much the same. You are right about that religion is used as an excuse to go to war and plunder. But also as a motivator for the soldiers and people.

But that's about wars in general. Tee crusades were just a religious war with religious objectives, which were to conquer the "holy land" and show which religion was the best.

So the crusades wouldn't happen without religion.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

So the crusades wouldn't happen without religion.

Of course they would,but not under that name and possibly at a slightly different date.. Wars are NEVER fought on moral principle. The crusades had very little to do with religion,except to the poor dumb fucks [on both sides] who did the actual dying.

All wars are about power at a macro level. The perpetrators always manage to come up with spiffy reasons to appeal to the best and worst in people at the same time.: To the the wealthy and gormless poor,they offered glory and sacrifice. To the pragmatic poor and the plain greedy,plunder rapine and pillage. Worked splendidly for centuries.Plunder from the crusades formed the basis of the wealth of many European noble houses.(and the pogroms before leaving home,killing all the Jews,who happened to be their creditors,saved them fortunes)

[Kyuuketsuki]

Wars would still happen ... wars are about resources mostly, we're like any other species competing for things we need only we do it with guns, bombs and tanks and of course the knight in armour ("our" primary weapon in the crusade I guess) was just the then historical version of the battlefield tank.

Kyu

[Overmars]

Religion was only used as a pretext for the Crusades, the main reason was economical, the Europeans wanted to occupy the Levant because then they could control the commerce in the Mediterranean Sea.

[g-mark]

Maybe.

[leo-rcc]

The wars themselves probably would have happened, only they would not have been called the Crusades.

[dagda]

I think to say that religion causes all wars etc is simplifying a complex issue. Although sexy secular liberals will love you.

[Coolmogo]

Well I try to be unbiased as possible and look at all arguments, for and against religion. It's easy to say that christians are narrow minded when you are yourself.

[Edwardo Piet]

I concur. Which is what I have against gnostic atheism. How do they claim to know God doesn't exist? You can't prove a negative!! :S

EvF