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What do you think about gun control?
February 9, 2022 at 5:22 am
An issue I have been thinking a lot about lately is gun control. I was wondering what you guys here think about it. While I am quite sure prisons are not a sensible policy, I am not so sure about gun control. I can think of some rather compelling arguments both for and against gun control, from the purely consequentialist perspective (so, not appealing to rights and similar concepts).
AGAINST:
1) How could it work given what gun control laws actually say? Gun control laws in most countries make automatic and semi-automatic weapons illegal, while leaving non-automatic weapons legal. But automatic and semi-automatic weapons are precisely those weapons that can come useful in self-defence, when every second counts. Criminals generally do not use automatic or semi-automatic weapons. Why would they? An attacker has all the time in the world to set up his or her weapon for the attack. It is the defender that needs to respond immediately, for whom automatic weapons may come useful. How could such gun control laws be anything but counter-productive?
CONTRA: This is argument from incredulity.
2) Self-defense use of guns seems to greatly outnumber the number of deaths caused by guns. It is hard to tell how often self-defense using guns happens, but it can be anywhere between 100'000 times per year to more than a million times per year. For comparisons, guns only cause around 50'000 deaths per year.
CONTRA: Many of those self-defense uses of guns would not be necessary if there were no guns to begin with.
FOR:
1) There appears to be a really strong consensus among social scientists that gun control helps.
CONTRA: That consensus may be based on political bias, since social scientists tend to be very left-wing.
2) There seems to be a strong correlation between gun ownership and violent crime within the US.
CONTRA: There does not seem to be such a strong correlation elsewhere, such as in Europe. The UK has among the lowest gun ownership rates in Europe, yet it is the highest in violent crime. Croatia and Serbia have the highest gun ownership rate in Europe, yet they are very low in violent crime.
Like I have said, I was wondering what you think.
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RE: What do you think about gun control?
February 9, 2022 at 5:36 am
I think I'm not going to engage, as we already have a plethora of gun threads here.
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RE: What do you think about gun control?
February 9, 2022 at 5:39 am
The exceptions do not prove the rule. Overall, strong gun control laws result in lower violent crimes. Consider Japan, its population and the number of murders due to handguns. One year that number was 12, which resulted in a national scandal.
As a US citizen, I favor a constitutional ammendment that would clarify the 2nd Ammendment limiting gun ownership to the "militia" only, which could include some "militia" sporting activities; whatever it takes, basically.
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RE: What do you think about gun control?
February 9, 2022 at 5:41 am
I think as long as they're kept on a leash in public, they're just fine.
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RE: What do you think about gun control?
February 9, 2022 at 6:02 am
Living in the UK where private ownership of firearms is generally illegal (with a few exceptions for farmers and strictly controled gun clubs) I have never understood why a normal person would ever need or want a gun. In 67 years of life I have never been in a situation where a gun would have helped.
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RE: What do you think about gun control?
February 9, 2022 at 6:11 am
So, true. I sleep with my mobile phone (it's 4 AM here; one of my cats got me up, because, he wanted to eat; I locked him in my basement with fresh food, water, etc.). Anyone who breaks into my home is here to steal worthless, useless items, not to kill me. It takes about 10 seconds to dial 911; the police station is 1.5 miles away.
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RE: What do you think about gun control?
February 9, 2022 at 8:28 am
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2022 at 8:32 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 9, 2022 at 5:22 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: An issue I have been thinking a lot about lately is gun control. I was wondering what you guys here think about it. While I am quite sure prisons are not a sensible policy, I am not so sure about gun control. I can think of some rather compelling arguments both for and against gun control, from the purely consequentialist perspective (so, not appealing to rights and similar concepts).
AGAINST:
1) How could it work given what gun control laws actually say? Well, one thing gun control laws say, for example, is that a five year old can't buy a rifle.
Quote:2) Self-defense use of guns seems to greatly outnumber the number of deaths caused by guns.
Can't be bothered to check the stats for notheristan, but that's not the case in the us, or even close to it.
Quote:1) There appears to be a really strong consensus among social scientists that gun control helps.
CONTRA: That consensus may be based on political bias, since social scientists tend to be very left-wing.
Yeah, damn those leftists with their "toddlers cant buy guns" laws. Obvious bias is obvious.
Quote:2) There seems to be a strong correlation between gun ownership and violent crime within the US.
CONTRA: There does not seem to be such a strong correlation elsewhere, such as in Europe. The UK has among the lowest gun ownership rates in Europe, yet it is the highest in violent crime. Croatia and Serbia have the highest gun ownership rate in Europe, yet they are very low in violent crime.
More the other way around. Gun owners aren't more likely to be violent criminals. Violent criminals are likely, in the us, to own a gun. The overwhelming majority of guns in the us are owned by and sit in the least violent places in the us. It's mostly hoarding. People with tons of guns. Some of us grow up getting them as birthday and christmas presents fairly regularly.
Personally, I think that it would be ludicrous if we didn't have gun laws. It's a dangerous piece of equipment.
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RE: What do you think about gun control?
February 9, 2022 at 9:32 am
Stop calling it "gun control", it makes the wingnuts go crazy. I wish more people in the center and on the left, especially liberal firearm owners would use the term "gun safety".
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RE: What do you think about gun control?
February 9, 2022 at 10:23 am
(February 9, 2022 at 6:02 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Living in the UK where private ownership of firearms is generally illegal (with a few exceptions for farmers and strictly controled gun clubs) I have never understood why a normal person would ever need or want a gun. In 67 years of life I have never been in a situation where a gun would have helped.
Well, it goes without saying the vast majority of people would never find themselves in a situation where a gun helps. But around 1% of Americans (around 3 million) claim to have found themselves in such a situation.
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RE: What do you think about gun control?
February 9, 2022 at 10:47 am
(February 9, 2022 at 10:23 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: (February 9, 2022 at 6:02 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Living in the UK where private ownership of firearms is generally illegal (with a few exceptions for farmers and strictly controled gun clubs) I have never understood why a normal person would ever need or want a gun. In 67 years of life I have never been in a situation where a gun would have helped.
Well, it goes without saying the vast majority of people would never find themselves in a situation where a gun helps. But around 1% of Americans (around 3 million) claim to have found themselves in such a situation.
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