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RE: How is the American Revolution taught in the UK?
July 12, 2012 at 1:45 pm
(July 12, 2012 at 1:43 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Hey, it was your idiot nation's fault to not make Benjamin Franklin a token representative of parliament or appoint a representative.
You could've easily stonewalled their demands while giving them the representation they asked for. It would've at least won you more support and perhaps even stagnated the desire to break away. 
Inept management of colonies is usually a prime factor in them breaking away.
I don't disagree.
Only sheep need a shepherd.
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RE: How is the American Revolution taught in the UK?
July 12, 2012 at 3:29 pm
What you don't seem to appreciate is that the American colonists were amoung the least repressed or taxed members of the empire for the period had an unusually large amount of clout.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: How is the American Revolution taught in the UK?
July 12, 2012 at 3:43 pm
(This post was last modified: July 12, 2012 at 3:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 12, 2012 at 1:10 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: A rebellion by some of the LEAST taxed people in the empire over a slight raise in taxes.
The more things change, the more things stay the same.
(Actually it was about the British treaty with the indians that limited expansion into the lush and gold bearing interior, Americans wanted to be free to plunder the land).
After...a very large number of people had struggled to set themselves up in what would have to be compared to the middle of today's Amazon -minus helicopters and other modern trans/comms- which was across a mountain range that was for all intents and purposes impassable....and also filled with not so friendly natives. But hey, whats a treaty stating that you must leave your home and everything you can't carry back into the slums you escaped from enforced by military might and taxation between countrymen?
It's probably better to consider the moments before the American Revolution as the final straw in a long (150ish year history) of getting screwed (not necessarily by the Crown, mind you).
(I wrote a decently long post about that awhile back)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How is the American Revolution taught in the UK?
July 12, 2012 at 4:02 pm
(This post was last modified: July 12, 2012 at 4:03 pm by Autumnlicious.)
(July 12, 2012 at 3:29 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: What you don't seem to appreciate is that the American colonists were amoung the least repressed or taxed members of the empire for the period had an unusually large amount of clout.
Saying you're not as bad to us as others is like an abuser telling his current victim "See, I'm not so bad to you as the last guy".
I never told Britain to be grateful. And I sure as hell didn't rub certain... world war support in your face.
I merely pointed out that if your subjects consider themselves equal to homeland citizens, then you might as well find a way to accomodate that. It merely follows that you can give the appearance of such without truly executing actual actions toward such.
Your collective loss, not mine.
Frankly, I wonder if the whole American Civil War could've been avoided were we under the Crown and the abolition of slavery occurred.
But we're not and Britain missed an opportunity.
Oh well.
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RE: How is the American Revolution taught in the UK?
July 12, 2012 at 6:55 pm
With the decline of the British Empire, we would have handed over America to the colonists sooner or later anyway.
I can foresee the Falkland Islands going next.
And the bloody cost of living in this country going up again and again and again.
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RE: How is the American Revolution taught in the UK?
July 12, 2012 at 7:18 pm
(This post was last modified: July 12, 2012 at 7:41 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(July 5, 2012 at 3:12 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:we became the largest empire ever and brought the world capitalism.
Thanks for nothing.
Britain was far from the largest empire ever. British empire only seemed big to the British because British minds were small and memories short.
(July 12, 2012 at 3:29 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: What you don't seem to appreciate is that the American colonists were amoung the least repressed or taxed members of the empire for the period had an unusually large amount of clout.
What we appreciated was you, the British, were stupid enough to defeat the French in 1756 for us, so having irretrieveable given to us the entirety of the only really important thing that we really needed you for, we have no more need for you.
The lesson - generosity, even if given purely out of what is perceived to be self-interest, can nonetheless be its own punishment.
A government should never meet its citizen's most charished aspirations, for its most cherished aspiration always have something to do with doing away with the government.
(July 12, 2012 at 1:43 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Hey, it was your idiot nation's fault to not make Benjamin Franklin a token representative of parliament or appoint a representative.
You could've easily stonewalled their demands while giving them the representation they asked for. It would've at least won you more support and perhaps even stagnated the desire to break away.
Inept management of colonies is usually a prime factor in them breaking away.
The only major ineptness of the British was to permanently make the colonies secure from a French land invasion from Quebec.
If the British didn't kick the French out, the colonists would have been glad to have the previlege of having British bayonets shoved up their asses in return for keeping the French bayonets north in Canada.
We are grasping, greedy, ungrateful, self-important bastards even by the lofty stardards of the British.
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RE: How is the American Revolution taught in the UK?
July 13, 2012 at 1:18 pm
(This post was last modified: July 13, 2012 at 1:19 pm by Autumnlicious.)
I'd like to point out that making impromptu treaties with hostile natives without involving the colonies assent (or figurehead there of) certainly did not win favors.
There are hundreds more little slights and omissions, that given the colonies status as holding the people Britain didn't want (Puritans! Who ever wants them!), would definitely bias the colonists away from their administrating country.
Fine, Americans are greedy and ungrateful. But the British are stupid, inattentive and hamfisted.
Subtlety was needed to retain the colonies. That or presenting a bigger threat.
Neither was done (actually, the bigger threat (Native Tribes) became part of the British threat).
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is an interesting phrase to consider.
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RE: How is the American Revolution taught in the UK?
July 13, 2012 at 10:15 pm
(July 4, 2012 at 12:21 pm)Tempus Wrote: According to the English, they won. Teaching this doesn't cause any problems, provided the English don't travel abroad. Although, one year someone from England travelled to America and it caused a tear in the space-time continuum.
But that didn't pose much of a problem, because he was sucked into the Chrono-Synclastic Infundibulum and only appears for an hour every year or so...IIRC...
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RE: How is the American Revolution taught in the UK?
July 15, 2012 at 8:56 am
That was all fun wasn't it? Nothing wrong in assigning responsibility to a group rather than the individuals in it. There's nothing frightening about a bit of patriotism, the group coalescing around a central idea, you might even get a nice song out of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p8g9qqFF...re=related
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