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Atonement...
#11
RE: Atonement...
(August 9, 2012 at 1:00 pm)Voltair Wrote: erm... You are quoting a symbolic vision that Isaiah was having.... Isaiah was approaching God with unclean lips in a sense so he had to be cleansed from my understanding. This vision was just that a vision not some new redemption scheme.

These days we lock up assholes who have visions and shoot them full of prozac.

How much less violent would the world be if these religious fuckwits had access to modern medicine?
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#12
RE: Atonement...
So, you wish for Isaiah to have access to modern medicine?
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#13
RE: Atonement...
(August 10, 2012 at 7:21 am)catfish Wrote:
(August 10, 2012 at 5:16 am)Godschild Wrote:


Mark 12:28-34
New International Version (NIV)

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

Again you show how little you understand scripture, Jesus says it is better not to sin than to have to bring offerings and sacrifices for sin.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#14
RE: Atonement...
Why don't we all just leave the troll alone. I know I know, he bugs me too, but these threads are getting so pissy and monotonous.

It's starting to feel like Groundhog Day around here ... accept without all the fun of Bill Murray.
[Image: Evolution.png]

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#15
RE: Atonement...
Atonement? Atonement for what?
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#16
RE: Atonement...
(August 10, 2012 at 6:48 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Why don't we all just leave the troll alone. ...

Yes, please do. Just back out quietly now because I'm sure you can't refute what I say.
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#17
RE: Atonement...
Quoting one verse out of thousands doesn't solve a contradiction, but makes one wonder if you're taking it out of context. The Book of Isaiah is a difficult book to understand, so how do we know that this is a contradiction?
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#18
RE: Atonement...
I guess it all depends on if you agree with sacrifice as atonement for your sins.
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#19
RE: Atonement...
Yes and no. A sacrifice was needed for the atonement of sins, but it can only be atoned by faith, hence the fact that Jesus commended the scribe that faith in God was better than just burnt sacrifice.

"Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required (Psalm 40:6)."

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him (Hebrews 11:6)."
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#20
RE: Atonement...
(August 10, 2012 at 10:08 pm)ChrisN Wrote: Yes and no. A sacrifice was needed for the atonement of sins, but it can only be atoned by faith, hence the fact that Jesus commended the scribe that faith in God was better than just burnt sacrifice.

"Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required (Psalm 40:6)."

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him (Hebrews 11:6)."

Jeremiah 7:21-23
King James Version (KJV)
21 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

Also, the Bible instructs the reader to not worship God the way the "heathens" did. "Heathens", sacrificed animals as well as humans to their gods, so I take it, and the verse(s) above (there are numerous others similar to the ones you provided), as further evidence that sacrifices were never intended. Also, as I pointed out in my other thread, blood sacrifice was only for "unintentional" sins.
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