Judaism and Origins of Christianity

[Jeffonthenet]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have read some materials by E.P. Sanders and not particularly impressed. His work start from the notion that a historical Jesus existed and then builds upon this premise. Confirmatory bias is something I can do without!

As far as I am aware, every scholar in a relevant field who has a teaching job believes that Jesus existed.

Let me rephrase:
His work start from the notion that a historical Jesus Christ, in the form of the divine Messiah, existed and then builds upon this premise.

The idea of a messiah existed in Judaism pre-Jesus certainly. And everyone recognizes that "Christ" was his title, and not his last name. However, that there was a historical Jesus who came from Nazereth is in no way disproved by these facts.

[Forsaken]

The idea of a messiah existed in Judaism pre-Jesus certainly. And everyone recognizes that "Christ" was his title, and not his last name. However, that there was a historical Jesus who came from Nazereth is in no way disproved by these facts.

Neither proved.

[Angrboda]

I don't know about specific works, but I think there is plenty of evidence that Jesus fit within a well established Judaic tradition of apocalyptic preachers. There's a lot of evidence from the Jewish literature itself, things like the Hasmonean Empire, Maccabees and the Book of David all point to a mindset of apocalypticism which was thick in the air centuries before the rabbi known as Yeshua. One might even interpret the Jewish revolt of 66 A.D. in this context. Some people, like former bishop Shelby Spong, also suggest that the form of the gospels suggests a liturgical narrative which was constructed to align with Jewish holidays. And then there's Jesus' own words about the coming kingdom. (I imagine more evidence might be drawn from the dead sea scrolls (and other things related to the community at Qumran) and the texts from Nag Hammadi.)

[Minimalist]

The idea of a messiah existed in Judaism pre-Jesus certainly.

"Jesus" bears no resemblance to the messiah which judaism anticipated.

There's a lot of evidence from the Jewish literature itself,

Which assumes that "literature" was not written and/or edited after the fact.

The Hasmonean/Maccabee stories in particular seem to flow from a power struggle between Hellenized jews and non-Hellenized jews.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

[Minimalist]

Any moment now one of the dickheads will be along to explain how you are taking all of that out of context, Pad.

It's practically a reflex for them.

[Jeffonthenet]

[Minimalist]

[greneknight]

[Minimalist]

Nations will recognize the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)

"Fuck that," sayeth the Romans!

"You are fond of saying that in the old days this same most high god made these and greater promises to those who gave heed to his commandments and worshipped him. But at the risk of appearing unkind, I ask how much good has been done by those promises have done either the Jews before you or you in your present circumstances. And would you have us put our faith in such a god? Instead of being masters of the whole world, the jews today have no home of any kind."

--Celsus c 175 AD