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The ways to know reality?
#11
RE: The ways to know reality?
Theres nothing I see here so far which I can disagree with. I'm sure that'll change soon enough.
"Vanity, is definitely my favorite sin." Al Pacino, Devils Advocate.

(July 5, 2012 at 12:47 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: What? Its a legitimate question. You don't think its important? If you have some kind of information that makes your belief system stand out from the others I think everyone here needs to hear it.
(July 6, 2012 at 3:04 am)fr0d0 Wrote: BTW I've decided that I shouldn't try to out child children. Sorry kids Wink
Translation: Run away! :'(

(July 21, 2012 at 12:11 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: "What is this accepted interpretation of the Bible passages that talks about Lots daughters getting him drunk specifically to get pregnant? What is the accepted interpretation of the priest and the concubine?"
Once again, answer the questions or retreat fr0d0.
(July 21, 2012 at 12:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Hey Rap ;-)

I don't have an interpretation. Thank you for the complimentary Rabbi status though, I'm suitably flattered. I'll get back to you on your inability to use the internet later. Busy having a life here. I hope that you understand.
Translation: Run away again! :'(
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#12
RE: The ways to know reality?
Ah, but can you be sure you've seen anything here at all?

Confused Fall
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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#13
RE: The ways to know reality?
(August 25, 2012 at 9:13 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Ah, but can you be sure you've seen anything here at all?

I can ask someone else to verify it for me. We can test it scientifically to see if our sight is a reliable tool to interpret the universe, and see how many people can concur that this conversation is indeed taking place.

Can't really do that with divine revelation or magical unicorns now can ya.
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#14
RE: The ways to know reality?
Unless that someone else is a figment of your imagination or something...

No, I'm just fecking with you. I agree that whatever one's own personal perspective of reality, there exists a common objective one which can be verified and indeed is so, all the time. I hope my original post on this, plus others I've made when this sort of thing has come up previously, made it clear(ish) what my take on it is.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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#15
RE: The ways to know reality?
(August 25, 2012 at 9:29 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Unless that someone else is a figment of your imagination or something...

Ah, the deep dark hole of philosobabble, it's deep, and very dark.

Quote:No, I'm just fecking with you.


I know Smile

We can only interpret the universe with what we have available, there's nothing else we have to work with that provides a logical explanation for 'reality'. I really get annoyed with the old 'oh but we might not exist at all, we might just be a figment of someone's imagination, we're in the fucking matrix hurrr durrr durrrrrr' bollocks. It makes no sense for this to be the case, and unless we can prove it, or find anything remotely to suggest it, suggesting it is merely that. It's a hypothetical scenario based on fuck all. I don't like dealing with hypotheticals, when truth can be discerned by verifiable means. Verifiable meaning, we can test whether it is right or wrong using what we use to interpret the universe, ie science. Which brings me round to my first sentence.

Not aiming this at you Stimbo, just venting it out there...
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#16
RE: The ways to know reality?
(August 25, 2012 at 3:26 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: I might be wrong, but it seems to me that the only (and I guess interconnected) ways to properly understand reality are experience, science and reason (I'm not sure if experience and science should be considered one or separate). Do you agree? Am I missing something? Am I being too simplistic?

My theist buddy keeps telling me I'm arrogant for thinking that all there is to knowing truth is experience, science, and reason. I asked him, what other way is there for coming to the truth of a matter? He said "divine revelation." But I explained to him that you have to use experience, science and reason to make sure the person giving the revelation is trustworthy and that what he says is actually true. So it just comes back to experience, science and reason.

Divine revelation = mental delusion of a wishful thinker.

Knowing reality = pour boiling water over your head. Before doing so, you could predict it will scald you. If it scalds you, then it's real.

Easy.
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.

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#17
RE: The ways to know reality?
If it does actually turn out that we're in a Matrix-style artificial reality, a CGI Truman Show, then as far as I'm concerned it makes absolutely no difference to the way we live and interact with the Universe and reality anyway. As Matt Dillahunty might say, "so what?" Okay, so our reality is nothing but some bizarre computer simulation and the only thing missing is the green diamonds over our heads. What can we do about it? Absolutely nothing whatsoever, it's our reality whatever it turns out ultimately to be.

Quote:Slartibartfast: Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, "Hang the sense of it," and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day.

Arthur Dent: And are you?

Slartibartfast: No. That's where it all falls down, of course.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
Reply
#18
RE: The ways to know reality?
(August 25, 2012 at 9:13 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Ah, but can you be sure you've seen anything here at all?

Confused Fall

I was fairly sure that time I spent with Lucy Lui last night was almost entirely a dream but that didn't stop me trying to get one last feel in before I woke up now did it?

*props Stimbo upright*
"Vanity, is definitely my favorite sin." Al Pacino, Devils Advocate.

(July 5, 2012 at 12:47 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: What? Its a legitimate question. You don't think its important? If you have some kind of information that makes your belief system stand out from the others I think everyone here needs to hear it.
(July 6, 2012 at 3:04 am)fr0d0 Wrote: BTW I've decided that I shouldn't try to out child children. Sorry kids Wink
Translation: Run away! :'(

(July 21, 2012 at 12:11 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: "What is this accepted interpretation of the Bible passages that talks about Lots daughters getting him drunk specifically to get pregnant? What is the accepted interpretation of the priest and the concubine?"
Once again, answer the questions or retreat fr0d0.
(July 21, 2012 at 12:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Hey Rap ;-)

I don't have an interpretation. Thank you for the complimentary Rabbi status though, I'm suitably flattered. I'll get back to you on your inability to use the internet later. Busy having a life here. I hope that you understand.
Translation: Run away again! :'(
Reply
#19
RE: The ways to know reality?



All we have is experience, and inferences based on experience. And inference is always uncertain. I'm of the opinion that the quality of 'being real' is a meaningless term, held over from times when metaphysical assumptions were simpler and more naive. Any moment now, we may awaken, only to realize this been nothing more than a dream. Science appears to produce good guesses as to what happens next, providing my memories of it are real, and not just illusory, momentary apprehensions. And black swans haunt our nightmares. Even, "I think, therefore I am," turns out to be unreliable. Assuming materialist assumptions, it's relatively clear why this is. The mind is a recurring event, happening in a small bowl of jello like flesh. It has no access to anything outside it's representations and models and present tense. It wouldn't know the real if it were bit by it. It's a wholly self contained simulation. And it's relationship to anything outside of itself cannot be known from inside it. It can guess, but of what use are guesses? What's out there is of almost no importance. What's happening "in here," and what we expect to happen next "in here," is the only "reality" worth contemplating. This moment, the law of gravity appears to hold, but the next moment, my memories and beliefs may be those of a third century Arab who has never heard of gravity. Damn those black swans.


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#20
RE: The ways to know reality?
(August 26, 2012 at 4:03 am)apophenia Wrote: I'm of the opinion that the quality of 'being real' is a meaningless term, held over from times when metaphysical assumptions were simpler and more naive. Any moment now, we may awaken, only to realize this been nothing more than a dream.

Is this a competition to see who can post the most meaningless shite?
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.

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