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RE: So...guess I'm the new guy
August 31, 2012 at 12:50 am
(August 31, 2012 at 12:11 am)idunno Wrote: I seen that, I thought about mentioning that appeals to authority aren't always fallacious.
No, they aren't, but when the argument invokes the authority, solely on the authority's say-so, and not upon the authority of the quality of their research on the specific topic under question, it is fallacious.
Furthermore, I believe that if one hears "most experts agree that X" and agrees without asking "Why?", then one is a fool who would be better served listening to, rather than participating in discussions on the topic.
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RE: So...guess I'm the new guy
August 31, 2012 at 1:14 am
Good points there, it's good to know why the correct answer is correct. Relating this to the classic arguments for theism, the issue of being thorough is why I don't really present those arguments for God. It's not as though I don't feel they are good, it's that it takes years to understand why they are good. You don't have to agree that the arguments are good to understand what I'm getting at here.
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RE: So...guess I'm the new guy
August 31, 2012 at 1:23 am
Appeals to authority are by definition fallacious, YOU FOOL!!!
(You're not allowed to insult me back. Turn the other cheek and bring it closer to your monitor so I can strike you. lol jk, paesan. I'm just winding you Xies up.)
Actually appeals to authority, strictly defined, are instances where the validity of the claim being made is justified solely or primarily on the appeal to authority. If an appeal to authority is simply a circumstantial part of the case, or an additional piece of evidence, it's not a fallacy.
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RE: So...guess I'm the new guy
August 31, 2012 at 1:24 am
Appeals to authority are fallacious if such an appeal is presented in lieu of evidence. Saying "so-and-so says" is not evidence of anything other than a third-party opinion (and like the wise man once said, opinions are like arseholes; everyone's got one and they're often full of shit). An evolutionary biologist doesn't - or shouldn't - accept evolutionary theory merely because Darwin wrote books on it, astrophysicists don't subscribe to the Big Bang theory just because Lemaître said it (and he was a Catholic priest; go figure). Basically, even the world's leading experts in their fields have to show their evidence.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: So...guess I'm the new guy
August 31, 2012 at 1:42 am
I agree with you guys here*. However In the video of Bart's interaction with the IG, doesn't he also lay out why he as a historian believes Jesus was an actual person?
*Vinny, why must you say such hurtful things? 
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RE: So...guess I'm the new guy
August 31, 2012 at 1:43 am
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2012 at 1:43 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 31, 2012 at 1:14 am)idunno Wrote: Good points there, it's good to know why the correct answer is correct. Relating this to the classic arguments for theism, the issue of being thorough is why I don't really present those arguments for God. It's not as though I don't feel they are good, it's that it takes years to understand why they are good. You don't have to agree that the arguments are good to understand what I'm getting at here.
Looks like your're getting at an excuse as to why you won't be substantiating a claim (two, at this point).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: So...guess I'm the new guy
August 31, 2012 at 1:50 am
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2012 at 1:55 am by Cyberman.)
(August 31, 2012 at 1:42 am)idunno Wrote: I agree with you guys here*. However In the video of Bart's interaction with the IG, doesn't he also lay out why he as a historian believes Jesus was an actual person?
*Vinny, why must you say such hurtful things?
I admit I haven't watched the video of which you speak, due to emotional instability which I shall not elaborate upon, does Ehrman actually give facts and evidence for those beliefs, or does he simply, as you put it, lay out why he as a historian believes Jesus was an actual person? If the latter, then he's still giving no more than his opinion and expecting to be taken as an authority because of whatever credentials he may have. It's a version of pulling rank, in a preaching context.
As for Vinny saying hurtful things, I haven't got him figured out yet but I suspect it's a case of in Vinny insultare. Or something.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: So...guess I'm the new guy
August 31, 2012 at 1:55 am
Stimbo, what he does is explain the method which historians employ in determining whether a person actually existed or not. He then explains how those methods are applied to Jesus and why it's believed that he actually existed.
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RE: So...guess I'm the new guy
August 31, 2012 at 1:59 am
So no actual evidence, then?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: So...guess I'm the new guy
August 31, 2012 at 2:02 am
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2012 at 2:02 am by idunno.)
What would qualify as evidence in that discussion? I should of asked before. 
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