Why I am still a Christian.

[greneknight]

God exists but not as a being. He's a personified metaphor for goodness and truth.

He therefore exists as a concept or conception of your mind, he does not exist in reality. You are an atheist.

As culture, religion is based on tradition. Truth is not the issue.

Then what is the point of religion? It is a very personal matter and a serious commitment, it's not something you just do because everything around you does it.

Also from your own church.

"Of the doctrine of the Church of England" (Canon A5): "The doctrine of the Church of England is grounded in the Holy Scriptures, and in such teachings of the ancient Fathers and Councils of the Church as are agreeable to the said Scriptures. In particular such doctrine is to be found in the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion, The Book of Common Prayer, and the Ordinal."

This proves your Church believes in at least some parts of the Bible and therefore God, but you don't.

My vicar warns me to be careful of fundamentalists and atheists who will say I'm not a Christian.

Does your church actually teach that God is not a being and the Bible is not to read or relied on?

Religion is an ASPECT of culture

As said, Religion is a personal thing and involves serious commitment, it is not something you do to fit in.

Of course I do. I know I am a Christian and a pretty devout one too considering my service to the church since I was 5.

I would consider a devout Christian one who serves God(DO NOT GIVE ME ANYTHING ABOUT WHETHER GOD EXISTS OR NOT), not necessarily the Church.

We differ in our terminology, no doubt. But let's just say you are not even a part of the Established Church. I don't think you can excommunicate anyone and so your opinion of what makes a Christian is inconsequential. By the teachings of my church, you are no different from someone who's excommunicated except that you are at liberty to join my church more freely.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

As said, Religion is a personal thing and involves serious commitment, it is not something you do to fit in.

For some,even many,certainly. As a principle; bollocks..

For most people on earth,religion is an accident of birth. Children uncritically absorb the personal superstitions and world views of their parents before the age of reason. Few people seriously ever question their religious beliefs or indeed their view of the world.

IF people critically examined their religious beliefs,atheism would not be in the minority anywhere..

[CBA222]

We differ in our terminology, no doubt. But let's just say you are not even a part of the Established Church. I don't think you can excommunicate anyone and so your opinion of what makes a Christian is inconsequential. By the teachings of my church, you are no different from someone who's excommunicated except that you are at liberty to join my church more freely.

I may not be part of your Church, but I do know the difference between an actual Christian and a cultural one. Tell me why you are not an atheist. God doesn't even exist in reality in you opinion.

[Phish]

Grene, I've said it before. I dig how your mind works. And I can understand where you're coming from when you say you won't leave because it would be like betraying your family's history and tradition. My question for you is what do you think about those of us that are not believers, Christians or whatever else of any sort? I've seen you in debate and this thread of yours has helped me understand your views better.

What do I think of those who are not believers, etc? No difference to me. I don't expect others to share my family name or follow my cultural traditions. Religion is extremely private and is for the individual to decide. If I had a brother and he wants to be an atheist, that's fine too. Or it's fine also if he wants to adopt some other religion but I'd rather he becomes an atheist. I don't feel so good about Islam because whatever people say about it, I don't really believe it's a religion of peace. It's like Christianity before the enlightenment when we burnt witches, etc. There's a lot of harm in that religion. But I'm ok with people who are in that culture, like the Arabs. But if I had a brother and he wanted to be an Islamist, I'd like to know why the devil he chose that religion of all the religions in the world.

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Sometimes culture isnt just worth it

Why would you rebel,we arent rebels we are just fellow logic thinkers,we arent rebeling against anyone.

You get such a felling when you are going to get an new material,or when you are in love,this are just random feelings so this does not prove anything


And pleas tell me,how much blood is in that cross you so much adore

How many religions were thought in this world? A million maybe more,so this is another proof that in the begging man created god.

Look at the fossils,found all over the world,like when you go in your fancy car,you burn fosills that were created,by high pressure,heat this process needet million of years,when the church claims the earth is old 6000 years.

So if god created man before women,that means that religion is automatic sexsist.

And if god created us in his own likeness,so he has created cripple folks,so god is a cripple him self,wow!

Why would you again choose an 500 hundred or more years old book than science facts that are proven!

If god is so generous,why does he make people suffer,go to wars,why does he created such places when people suffer? (Places like africa,and other third world countries)Why does't he give them food if he is so nice.

If adam and eve were both white,from where did the blacks come from?

Most of your questions are best put to fundamentalist Christians. My church accepts evolution. We think a 6000 year old earth is stupid. We don't think Adam and Eve were historical. You are obviously an American with a set idea of the American Bible belt version of Christianity. It's not like this in Europe.

a church that accepts evolution,well i learn something new everyday.

What about contraceptions and condom use?

[Godscreated]

@ greneknight, who's concept of God have you accepted and what makes their concept the correct one. Because you believe in another's concept of God does not make that concept true, and the concept is not true just because someone else (members of your church) believes it to be true.

You are a Churchian, one who believes that the church offers them what they need, Christians know their needs are meet by Christ through grace, I agree with CBA222, you are not a christian. You have failed on all points to meet in the slightest the level of belief that is required to be a christian. Christ said to His disciples, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you could move a mountain, well they never did, all the mountains are in place, so what does this say about your belief. You use Christianity as a crutch or maybe it's more like an insurance policy, just in case hell is real. Look at it this way, if hell is real then so are the scriptures, and if the scriptures are real then you have failed and your insurance policy is no better than the concept you believe in, which is a complete failure.

[KichigaiNeko]

You are 13 grene? Hmmm

I would hazard that you are on your way (as I was) to being an atheist. Seriously it is most liberating.

Xtianity is no different than islamism or judaism.... ALL religion is fucked and only a tool to control the masses ...end of story.

BUT..... you are young and I will not be surprised IF @ say 26 - 30 you state emphatically that ".... there is no evidence for ANY deity, it is ALL crap and I am going off to live a good life"

[Napoléon]

@greneknight - Do you believe in a god?

[greneknight]

What do I think of those who are not believers, etc? No difference to me. I don't expect others to share my family name or follow my cultural traditions. Religion is extremely private and is for the individual to decide. If I had a brother and he wants to be an atheist, that's fine too. Or it's fine also if he wants to adopt some other religion but I'd rather he becomes an atheist. I don't feel so good about Islam because whatever people say about it, I don't really believe it's a religion of peace. It's like Christianity before the enlightenment when we burnt witches, etc. There's a lot of harm in that religion. But I'm ok with people who are in that culture, like the Arabs. But if I had a brother and he wanted to be an Islamist, I'd like to know why the devil he chose that religion of all the religions in the world.

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Most of your questions are best put to fundamentalist Christians. My church accepts evolution. We think a 6000 year old earth is stupid. We don't think Adam and Eve were historical. You are obviously an American with a set idea of the American Bible belt version of Christianity. It's not like this in Europe.

a church that accepts evolution,well i learn something new everyday.

What about contraceptions and condom use?

Homo sapiens, if you could just step out of the Bible Belt of the USA and go to more normal countries like ANY country in Europe, you will see that all churches here accept evolution. The Archbishop of Canterbury has opposed every attempt by creationists to introduce the nonsense of creationism in schools.

Yes, contraception and condom use is perfectly ok in my church. We are not RC. Only the RCs oppose these things.

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@ greneknight, who's concept of God have you accepted and what makes their concept the correct one. Because you believe in another's concept of God does not make that concept true, and the concept is not true just because someone else (members of your church) believes it to be true.

You are a Churchian, one who believes that the church offers them what they need, Christians know their needs are meet by Christ through grace, I agree with CBA222, you are not a christian. You have failed on all points to meet in the slightest the level of belief that is required to be a christian. Christ said to His disciples, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you could move a mountain, well they never did, all the mountains are in place, so what does this say about your belief. You use Christianity as a crutch or maybe it's more like an insurance policy, just in case hell is real. Look at it this way, if hell is real then so are the scriptures, and if the scriptures are real then you have failed and your insurance policy is no better than the concept you believe in, which is a complete failure.

Hi Godschild,

Let me be perfectly clear. I know hell is bunkum. I have not the slightest fear of hell or even the slightest anxiety that it might be true. I KNOW with every fibre of my body and every cell that has my DNA that hell is absolutely bunkum and I think it's idiocy to believe in it or to fear it. Please do not make the mistake of thinking that I need some insurance policy in case hell is real. It's not and it cannot be.

Heaven is another concept that is nice to believe in and I really wish it were real but I know heaven is bunkum. I don't believe it exists at all although I really wish it did. Come on, I'd love it if Narnia existed too but I know it doesn't. It's not that long ago when I believed heaven existed but then my timeline is rather short and it's not that long ago either when I believed in Santa Claus. So please don't say I want an insurance policy to get to heaven. I don't need an insurance policy any more than you'd need an insurance policy to get to Narnia.

Here, my answer will be for Napoleon too.

God is a concept that I haven't really formulated properly in my head. At the moment, I accept that there is no evidence whatsoever for God to exist and there is no rational argument in favour of God that satisfies me or that cannot be refuted by other counter-arguments. I'm almost tempted to say God is bunkum but so much of Western civilization and art are based on this concept of God that I want to give myself more time to formulate my idea about it. Right now, I can only honestly admit in my head that God is probably a personified metaphor for goodness and truth. My feelings are different but feelings are unreliable and unthinking. But in my head, God can't be a personal being with independent thought and will. But it's all very fluid and uncertain. I really haven't quite made up my mind. This idea is not the idea of my vicar. It's my own personal idea based on my own observation and examination of the evidence and the arguments.

Because of my culture as a Christian, this metaphor God is best expressed in its Triune form - in the formula that we are used to in the Western culture. So I have no problem with crossing myself when the name of the Holy Trinity is invoked.

But nothing is carved in rock yet. I'm still explorin[/size]g and forming my own ideas.

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You are 13 grene? Hmmm

I would hazard that you are on your way (as I was) to being an atheist. Seriously it is most liberating.

Xtianity is no different than islamism or judaism.... ALL religion is fucked and only a tool to control the masses ...end of story.

BUT..... you are young and I will not be surprised IF @ say 26 - 30 you state emphatically that ".... there is no evidence for ANY deity, it is ALL crap and I am going off to live a good life"

I would rather say 14 because that's what I would be by mid-December. Mathematically, 13.7 is closer to 14 than 13 but the forum record automatically puts me as 13.

[Cinjin]

I'm sorry. You got it all wrong. I'm not Roman Catholic. I agree if I were RC, I'd leave the church. Dawkins himself calls my church a "benign church". He wouldn't have said that of the RC church.

Apologies. I read too many threads and got my wires crossed about which church your loyalties lie with.

[Napoléon]

Apologies. I read too many threads and got my wires crossed about which church your loyalties lie with.

Does seem like there's a shit load of different christians to keep track of lately. At least with atheists you don't have to worry about what organisation they belong to or what the specifics of their beliefs are.