A non supernatural explanation for 'god'

[Puddleglum]

I do not 'believe this' its just a theory, a possibility.

1) Multiple universe theory is an extreme likeleyhood according to Quantum Physicists.

2) A strong current theory is that this universe 'budded off' from another universe in a different dimension

3) We are going through a logarithmic increase in knowledge to such an extent that the Technological singularity (aka the nerd rapture' ) here is a distinct possibility and in an indeterminate number of years men we will able to transform matter at its most fundamental level.

4) if Multiple universe theory is true that means there are an almost limitless number of other universes many of which will have developed intelligent life that has achieved this power.

5) This universe might, therefore, be the product of an intelligence from another dimension that existed, before our time even existed.

6) That being would be to all purposes a creator god from our P.O.V.

7) That being might still be monitoring this universe and might , for amusement or as experiment, interfere with the normal evolutionary cycle.

[Darkstar]

4) if Multiple universe theory is true that means there are an almost limitless number of other universes many of which will have developed intelligent life that has achieved this power.

5) This universe might, therefore, be the product of an intelligence from another dimension that existed, before our time even existed.

Maybe...but then that creator (going by the logic that god is evolved) would have had to evolve by the same means that we did, either:

1. Requiring a creator itself (for which creator we would need to ask this question again), or:
2. Arose spontaneously as a simple life form, then that species eventually evolved into a god (but if it evolved from a lifeform that appeared through abiogenesis, then we could have, and there would be no need for go).

Likewise, the 'technological sigularity' cannot be understood until we reach it. But we cannot know if that is even possible until we do, just as god is unknowable, so is this (although they are presented as similar concepts here, likewise there is no proof that either one could exist, even in theory). And yes, I know that there is a fundamental difference between genetic evolution and humanity's evolution of science. So this is a god by technology, then? Somewhat different from another 'god by [biological] evolution' theory I saw somewhere (maybe even on this forum). The other theory fails for largely the same reasons.

[downbeatplumb]

The creature you describe would be a powerful/advanced alien and not a god.

[Haydn2]

The creature you describe would be a powerful/advanced alien and not a god.

whats the difference?

[Anomalocaris]

A non-supernatural explanation for god:

Some desert dwelling fuckhead made it up.

---

I do not 'believe this' its just a theory, a possibility.

1) Multiple universe theory is an extreme likeleyhood according to Quantum Physicists.

2) A strong current theory is that this universe 'budded off' from another universe in a different dimension

3) We are going through a logarithmic increase in knowledge to such an extent that the Technological singularity (aka the nerd rapture' ) here is a distinct possibility and in an indeterminate number of years men we will able to transform matter at its most fundamental level.

4) if Multiple universe theory is true that means there are an almost limitless number of other universes many of which will have developed intelligent life that has achieved this power.

5) This universe might, therefore, be the product of an intelligence from another dimension that existed, before our time even existed.

6) That being would be to all purposes a creator god from our P.O.V.

7) That being might still be monitoring this universe and might , for amusement or as experiment, interfere with the normal evolutionary cycle.

I dispute your catagorizaton of "extreme likeleyhood", "strong current theory" to cover what is essentially idle speculations well beyond the known.

[TaraJo]

The creature you describe would be a powerful/advanced alien and not a god.

It's kinda an interesting spin; what would the requirements be for a god to actually exist? Is the supernatural required? I've always believed that supernatural phenomenon is just science we don't understand yet. If that's the case, and supernatural is needed for belief in a god, when our scientific understanding reaches the point we DO understand these hypothetical gods, the 'god' stops being god and becomes something else.

If god is defined by the fact that they created the universe and everything in it, this being isn't a god either because these gods were created by a process of evolution. Although, an all powerful being could easily have gone back in time and created everything, including the evolutionary processes that created their own race, but then there's all kinds of issues with temporal paradoxes that we'd have to deal with.

[Darkstar]

If you think about it, it seems like the only god that could ever exist would be a psuedo-god alien. For an infinitely powerful being to spontaneously arise from nothing at the beginnning of time, well...it would be pointless to defend that. A pseudo-god alien, however, would at least be possible. It wouldn't have to be truly omnipotent, just so strong that early humans couldn't tell the difference. All it would have to do to 'create' life would be to send prepackaged single-celled organisms to earth and wait for them to evolve. (Of couse it would need a way to perpetuate or at least greatly lengthen its lifespan, or it could be a different alien).

Of course, such a being wouldn't really be god, and a lot of things (creation story, Noah's ark, etc.) would have to be thrown out to explain it, but at least it isn't scientifically impossible. But it would be falsifiable, just very difficult to falsify. Are there any religions (using that word loosely) that suggest something like that? I know scientology somehow involves aliens, but I don't think it's the same.

[Angrboda]

An Ojibwe legend
In the beginning before there were people, before there were animals, a lone woman lived in a cave. She lived on the roots and berries of the plants. One night a magical dog crept into her cave and stretched out on the her bed beside her. As the night grew long the dog began to change. His body became smooth and almost hairless. His limbs grew long and straight. His features changed into those of a handsome warrior. Nine months later the woman birthed a child. He was the first Chippewa male and through him came the Chippewa peoples.

An Indian legend
In the beginning there was absolutely nothing, and what existed was covered by death and hunger. He thought, "Let me have a self", and he created the mind. As he moved about in worship, water was generated. Froth formed on the water, and the froth eventually solidifed to become earth. He rested on the earth, and from his luminence came fire. After resting, he divided himself in three parts, and one is fire, one is the sun, and one is the air.

Thus in the beginning the world was only his self, his being or essence, which then took the shape of a person. At first he was afraid, but realizing that he was alone and had nothing of which to be afraid, his fear ceased. However, he had no happiness because he was alone, and he longed for another. He grew as large as two persons embracing, and he caused his self to split into two matching parts, like two halves of a split pea, and from them arose husband and wife.

They mated, and from their union arose the human beings of the earth. The female reflected on having mated with someone of whom she was once a part, and she resolved that she should hide so that it would not happen again. She changed to a cow to disguise herself, but he changed to a bull and mated with her, and from their union cows arose. She changed to the form of a mare, but he changed to that of a stallion and mated with her, and from that union came horses. She changed to the form of a donkey, but he did likewise, and from them arose the single-hoofed animals. She became a ewe, but he became a ram, and from their union came the sheep and goats. It continued thus, with her changing form to elude him but he finding her and mating with her, until they had created all the animals that live in pairs, from humans and horses to ants.

After all this work, he reflected that he was indeed Creation personified, for he had created all this. Rubbing back and forth, he made Fire, the god of fire, from his hands, and from his semen he made Soma, the god of the moon. This was his highest creation because, although mortal himself, he had created immortal gods.

An African legend
In the beginning there was no earth, no day or night, and not even time itself. All that existed was the Kingdom of Everlasting Truth, which was ruled by the Naba Zid-Wendé. The Naba Zid-Wendé made the earth, and then they made the day and the night. To make the day a time to be busy, they made the sun, and to make the night a time of rest, they made the moon. In doing so, they made time itself.

At first the earth was covered with fire, but the Naba Zid-Wendé blew on the earth to cool the fire. They ordered the fire to live inside the earth, so that the surface would be safe for the humans they were going to make. Only very resentfully did the fire go into the earth.

First the Naba Zid-Wendé made a chameleon, to see if the earth's outer crust would hold it up. When the crust held it up, the Naba Zid-Wendé made snakes to crawl on the earth, to see if it was cool enough to live on. When the snakes did not complain about their bellies, the Naba Zid-Wendé made the large animals, the elephant, the rhinoceros, and the buffalo. The crust was strong enough to hold up even them, and so the crust was solid and cool.

Finally the Naba Zid-Wendé were ready to create humans. They made them very black, because black is a strong color, and to make them different from the sun, which is red, and from the moon, which is white. The Naba Zid-Wendé used their breath to blow a soul into the humans that they had made.

The smile of the Naba Zid-Wendé at their human creations became the sky, and they hung the sky so low that humans could reach it and eat it for their food. They made stars out beyond the sky, and they made many other wonderful things for their humans. The humans nonetheless became arrogant and suspicious, and the humans began to claim that the Naba Zid-Wendé had hidden something valuable from them under the mountains. The humans dug under the mountains, but they only found a leper living there, and they let the leper go free from his subterranean prison.

This leper, however, was really the fire, and he soon burst into flames. Still angry at the Naba Zid-Wendé and jealous of the humans, the fire was evil, and it burned the sky. The sky withdrew in pain, and withdrew all the way beyond the stars, back to the Kingdom of Everlasting Truth.

No longer could the humans get their food from the sky — their arrogance had ended that. The Naba Zid-Wendé nonetheless made clouds and rivers and streams to keep the earth wet, and they made plants for humans to have food and trees that produce fruit for them. They made flowers to make the earth beautiful, and made the scents of the flowers to provide the smell of life.

An Iriquois legend
The Iroquois account of demiurge is that in the beginning there was no earth to live on, only a watery abyss, but up above, in the Great Blue, there was a community called the Sky World including a woman who dreamed dreams.

One night she dreamed about the tree that was the source of light. The dream frightened her, so she went and asked the men in the Sky World to pull up the tree. They dug around the trees roots to make space for more light, and the tree fell through the hole and disappeared. After that there was only darkness. Distraught, they pushed the woman through the hole as well. The woman would have been lost in the abyss had not a fish hawk come to her aid using his feathers to pillow her.

The fish hawk could not keep her up all on his own, so he asked for help to create some firm ground for the woman to rest upon. A helldiver went down to the bottom of the sea and brought back mud in his beak. He found a turtle, smeared the mud onto its back, and dove down again for more. Ducks also brought beaksful of the ocean floor and to spread over the turtle's shell.

The beavers helped build terrain, making the shell bigger. The birds and the animals built the continents until they had made the whole round earth, while the woman was safely sitting on the turtle's back. The turtle continues to hold the earth on its back.

After this, one of the Spirits of the Sky World came down and looked at the earth. As he traveled over it, he found it beautiful, and so he created people to live on it and gave them special skills; each tribe of the Iroquois nation was given special gifts to share with the rest of humanity.

A Japanese legend
When heaven and earth began, three deities came into being, The Spirit Master of the Center of Heaven, The August Wondrously Producing Spirit, and the Divine Wondrously Producing Ancestor. These three were invisible. The earth was young then, and land floated like oil, and from it reed shoots sprouted. From these reeds came two more deities. After them, five or six pairs of deities came into being, and the last of these were Izanagi and Izanami, whose names mean "The Male Who Invites" and "The Female who Invites".

The first five deities commanded Izanagi and Izanami to make and solidify the land of Japan, and they gave the young pair a jeweled spear. Standing on the Floating Bridge of Heaven, they dipped it in the ocean brine and stirred. They pulled out the spear, and the brine that dripped off it formed an island to which they descended. On this island they built a palace for their wedding and a great column to the heavens.

Izanami examined her body and found that one place had not grown, and she told this to Izanagi, who replied that his body was well-formed but that one place had grown to excess. He proposed that he place his excess in her place that was not complete and that in doing so they would make new land. They agreed to walk around the pillar and meet behind it to do this. When they arrive behind the pillar, she greeted him by saying "What a fine young man", and he responded by greeting her with "What a fine young woman". They procreated and gave birth to a leech-child, which they put in a basket and let float away. Then they gave birth to a floating island, which likewise they did not recognize as one of their children.

Disappointed by their failures in procreation, they returned to Heaven and consulted the deities there. The deities explained that the cause of their difficulties was that the female had spoken first when they met to procreate. Izanagi and Izanami returned to their island and again met behind the heavenly pillar. When they met, he said, "What a fine young woman," and she said "What a fine young man". They mated and gave birth to the eight main islands of Japan and six minor islands. Then they gave birth to a variety of deities to inhabit those islands, including the sea deity, the deity of the sea-straits, and the deities of the rivers, winds, trees, and mountains. Last, Izanami gave birth to the fire deity, and her genitals were so burned that she died.

Izanagi grieved over Izanami, and a deity was born from his tears. Distraught after burying Izanami, he used his long sword to behead his son, the deity of fire, whose birth had killed Izanami. From the blood on the sword came three deities of rocks, two deities of fire, and one of water, all of which are needed to make a sword. Eight more deities arose from the body of Izanagi and Izanami's slain son.

Yup. Sounds like them space aliens to me, Edna.

[Brian37]

I do not 'believe this' its just a theory, a possibility.

1) Multiple universe theory is an extreme likeleyhood according to Quantum Physicists.

2) A strong current theory is that this universe 'budded off' from another universe in a different dimension

3) We are going through a logarithmic increase in knowledge to such an extent that the Technological singularity (aka the nerd rapture' ) here is a distinct possibility and in an indeterminate number of years men we will able to transform matter at its most fundamental level.

4) if Multiple universe theory is true that means there are an almost limitless number of other universes many of which will have developed intelligent life that has achieved this power.

5) This universe might, therefore, be the product of an intelligence from another dimension that existed, before our time even existed.

6) That being would be to all purposes a creator god from our P.O.V.

7) That being might still be monitoring this universe and might , for amusement or as experiment, interfere with the normal evolutionary cycle.

It is perfectly fine for science to look at possible solutions to current unknowns. However "god" is a completly broken concept rooted in myth and superstition and has no place acting as a place card for the unknown.

Just scrap the damn antiquated word. "God is not required"Stephen Hawkins.

Once something is thoroughly debunked it should be scrapped as a claim just like when you grow up, you don't believe in Santa. Trying to re define a word such as "god" instead of simply discarding it, to me,is inviting trouble from those who are still stuck in a utopian past.

We once did not know why hurricanes formed, but have documented them throught written history. But science never filled in that gap with myth. It's method only went with current data and only "guessed" not with gaps, but with proven data.

Competing theories in science are how things improve. But the standard even in competing claims in science is to always avoid superflous add ons that do nothing to validate a theory.

Was there something before? Don't know. Are there multiple universes? Don't know. But what we do know is that energy and motion and material do not require a cognition to occur or move.

My best guess to "whatever" is that when we do find some new knowledge we wont find a god, we will simply find more data and improve on our current knowledge.

If it makes no sense to incert Posiden in as the cause of a hurricane, then why would life or the universe need a cognition to occure either?

[Omni314]

If something came from another universe then it is by defination supernatural.