Have women achieved equal status to men yet?

[andrewmoquin]

In modern countries, like the USA/UK/Australia etc, do you think women have achieved full equality yet?

Thanks!

[Kyuuketsuki]

No ... that women who rise to the top in business have to be (at least) twice as tough as a man of the same status strongly implies this to me.

But then again there are some areas where equality is taken to ridiculous extremes such as the fire service (Kyu sits back and waits for someone to bite)

Kyu

[Dotard]

I'll bite.

How is it taken to exteme in the fire service?

[Eilonnwy]

As a woman, I can say definitely not.

Kyu, are you talking about the New Haven firefighters case, or something else entirely?

[Kyuuketsuki]

Kyu, are you talking about the New Haven firefighters case, or something else entirely?

I'll bite. How is it taken to exteme in the fire service?

Not specifically that case (never even heard of it) but it could well be something similar.

Turns out I've posted about it already in this thread, Political Correctness Gone Mad .. here's the intro paragraph which refers specifically to it:

I have a friend who is a fireman, in the UK (and I suspect it's much the same in other countries) firemen work in pairs, "buddies" and each is expected to look after their partner in the event that one of them goes down. To cut a long story short my friend complained to me that they had bypassed the height/weight/fitness standards to allow a number of women that didn't fulfil them into the career. Now I'm all for equality in principle but there are some things some people are better equipped for than others (that's just the way of the world) and typically a man is capable of carrying more and of being more physically fit than women and not only does this cause issues with respect to a person's ability to lug the heavy fire-equipment into dangerous situations but, unless these women are of a reasonable physical equivalence to their male "buddies" (perhaps "built like a brick sh**house" as we say in the UK) there is a very significant risk that they can actually endanger their buddy if, in the event their partner is incapacitated, they are unable to get their buddy out of danger. Positive discrimination of this kind is a sign that political correctness is being carried way too far.

That, I know, is about political correctness but it also demonstrates why Men and Women are not (and should not) be viewed as entirely equal ... don't get me wrong I am very much for the principle of equality but there are some things which simply cannot be handled that way (such as this example). Women (on average) are unlikely ever to be physically the equal of (average) men, men shouldn't be viewed as equal when it comes to childbirth (yeah I know it's technically possible for a man to give birth) though that's probably a poor example ... what I am badly trying to get across is that men and women aren't equal , individuals aren't equal, we all have a widely varying set of attributes and skills and although we should be equal in the eyes of the law some sense should prevail when evaluiating some things such as equality.

Kyu

[Eilonnwy]

I agree. People should get jobs based their ability to perform those jobs regardless of their gender, race, etc... and that means sometimes there may be more men in a position that women are just physically incapable of performing. And that's fine, as long as equal opportunity is given to women who can.

There's a delicate balance between being equal but fair. The case I was talking about was where there was a test taken for firefighters to get a promotion to captain or something along those lines, and the majority of people who passed where white men. The minorities did poorly. The city decided to throw out the results preventing people who studied hard to get the promotion they deserved on the basis that there was something wrong with the test since not enough minorities passed. The case went all the way to the supreme court and it was decided to keep the results of the test, a decision which I agreed with since there was no evidence that the test discriminated in any way.

It's tough too, because you also have to take into account opportunities. Many minorities have a harder time rising because their education is subpar and the challenges they can face to rise through the ranks are harder than white men, yet at the same time you can't deny promotions to white men who have done all the right things to get where they are going.

[Rockthatpiano06]

I don't think things are equal but I agree with you Eilonnwy. Sometimes things just aren't equal and you have to deal with that, but I think things like the fact that women get paid significantly less than men for doing the same job- they need to change.

[Dotard]

Be glad I have nothing to say about it or you all would be wearing Burkas and washing my feet!

Damned women-libbers......