My first real challenge

[Demonaura]

I got to butt heads with my first fanactical christians last day, it was interesting to say the least because they were the parents of a close friend of mine named Sarah.

Another one of my friends, Cole, brought it up, he happens to be her boyfriend. It caught me off guard a bit because he did so after Sarah's parents basically freaked on us about a camping trip. The topic was why Sarah, an atheist was still forced to go to church.

I couldn't hope to cover the whole thing as most parts happened rather fast and my memory is somewhat weak concerning the event. It seemed that no matter what I said I couldn't help offend them and cause them to raise their voices.

Cole had actually told me after that the way I was speaking was probably the reason they even stayed as long as they did, I find I am often very polite when dealing with theists, I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not.

Either way my argument was that reguardless of anything else, I felt them forcing Sarah to go only caused negitivity and build a wall between Sarah and her parents, and god for those who thought he existed. They however, insisted (using many more words) that their way was the only way and refused to accept any other opinion. Of course it was not long before it came down to the standard personal attacks instead of attacks on my argument.

Eventually I must have said something that stuck a nerve because after trying to reword my point a few times and hearing Sarahs parents repeat the same biblical bull for a half hour the mother jumped up, started swearing, said something along the lines of "FINE you don't have to go to church! NOW DO YOU FEEL LIKE AN ADULT!?" Capital words to show shouting of course. The adult thing had come up earlier where they basically said Sarah was useless without them holding her hand.

The comment of course upsetted Sarah a bit, she had actually said very little and yet they threw everything I had said in her face. They took her home right away, so we "couldn't have our moment of victory". Of course we had no such moment anyways, we were trying to comfort a friend who has a nazi for a mother.

We did celebrate a bit later because we were all together anyways, and spent a few hours going over their points and our points like civilised people. That was a change.

In the end the whole thing reminded me of a quote a friend once told me: "Debating christians is like playing chess with a pidgeon. When they start to lose they knock over the game board, shit on everything then fly back to their nest declaring victory."

Questions/comments/think I'm a massive dick? please reply!

[Rockthatpiano06]

I think you handled the situation the best way you could! Like you said, anything you said would have offended them anyway so I wouldn't worry about that, all you can do is try to be as respectful as possible. I feel sorry for your friend, may I ask how old she is?

[Demonaura]

Thanks for the comments, makes me feel better at least.

Sarah is 18, both myself and her boyfriend are 19.

[Rhizomorph13]

Demonaura,

I think you did the right thing, it is wrong to force children to go to church if they don't want to. It is also extremely counterproductive because the child will equate church with negative emotions.

Being polite is the only way that your opinion will ever be heard by anyone, not just theists. Composure part of a good negotiation strategy.

You stuck up for your friend, good for you!

Rhizo

[Anto Kennedy]

I think you did the wrong thing, interfering in how parent's raise their children. I assume from your post that Sarah is in her late teens, and not too far away from moving out to college or whatever. You have to look at this from the angle of the parents, who perhaps don't get to see their child as often as they used to except for the Sunday service and a meal with the family.

Going to Church more often than not is an excuse for people to get together and enjoy each other's company.

Not every situation should be seen as a potential battleground in the war to save people from the evils of religion.

I'd like to know, though, what made these particular individuals "fanatical"?

Anyway, there's nothing to celebrate. You've just played your part in the breakdown of a family. Congratulations, feel better now?

[Overmars]

Going to Church more often than not is an excuse for people to get together and enjoy each other's company.

You say it like there is no other place where people can get together and the church doesn't seem to be the best place to get together because as far as I know you can't talk in there. I think it's the parents fault for being so narrow minded and to enforce their point of view to thier child.

[Demonaura]

They'd be fanatical because they would rather see her have absolutely no friends whatsoever than leave the church. They have destroyed her self confidence at every oppertunity, even up until recently she was not allowed to so much as speak with a non-christian.

I know they see her quite often, they refuse to allow her to see the sun at every occasion, it's a rare gift to see her outdoors, or happy because of the mental abuse she receives. It's to the point where she actually doesn't own anything. She paid her money for her computer, car.ect. Everything she owns but, they made her give them the money so they could buy it and have all the insurance and purchases in their name. In order to provide them the ability to deny her everything when they decide she didn't read the bible enough.

And no, I'm not joking. If I have broken up the family then I consider it a victory indeed, not me, my friends, or my friends families think her parents deserve a child.


Now I will agree that in almost every case I feel it is inappropriate to tell a parent how to raise their child. Despite that many of them should have to take a school course on parenting before being allowed to have sex I usually feel it is a parents right to do what they feel is best.

However, abuse is abuse and I will never lie to myself and others when I look those people in the eye.

[Overmars]

From what you say Demonaura this guys seem proper pricks, hopeless case imo.

[Anto Kennedy]

You say it like there is no other place where people can get together

You don't go bowling with the whole community, you don't go to a sporting event with the whole community or go to a cinema with the whole community. Yet every week the whole community meets at the local church, there may be a local pub, in which case the whole community would meet there too, but not an underage teenager like Sarah.

Think about it though, what other ways of spending time with a teenager is there except for the consistent Sunday service?

and the church doesn't seem to be the best place to get together because as far as I know you can't talk in there.

It's not just the service, it's the entire Sunday ritual. Dressing up in the morning, getting ready, walking or driving to the church, getting out and chatting with friends and relatives, after the service you'll have some tea and more chat, maybe go for a drive afterwards and a meal out. The whole family enjoying eachothers company through the afternoon and perhaps a few drinks in the evening.

They'd be fanatical because they would rather see her have absolutely no friends whatsoever than leave the church.

Well judging from the kind of friends she has who have no quams with disrespecting her parents and telling them how they're not raising their child right, I'm not surprised. If you say that to ANY parent, expect a strong reaction.

They have destroyed her self confidence at every oppertunity, even up until recently she was not allowed to so much as speak with a non-christian.

Yet she has several non-Christian friends who were talking to hem as described in your post. Sounds like someone needs to stop exaggerating.

It's to the point where she actually doesn't own anything. She paid her money for her computer, car.ect. Everything she owns but, they made her give them the money so they could buy it and have all the insurance and purchases in their name.

Sounds like bull to me. A teenager that has the money to buy both a car and a computer.....It's more likely the parents bought these things for their child.

If I have broken up the family then I consider it a victory indeed, not me, my friends, or my friends families think her parents deserve a child.

Thank God you're not in any position of authority. Would you sterilize them? Take their kids and "re-programme" them to think like you?

Despite that many of them should have to take a school course on parenting before being allowed to have sex

I think you need to take a course in mind your own business.

However, abuse is abuse and I will never lie to myself and others when I look those people in the eye.

A Christian upbringing isn't child abuse, getting molested is child abuse, being starved is child abuse, being beaten and forced to live on the floor is child abuse. Abuse is abuse, and your parents telling you you can't hang around with that prick that started critcizing their parenting abilites is not abuse.

[Overmars]

You say it like there is no other place where people can get together

You don't go bowling with the whole community, you don't go to a sporting event with the whole community or go to a cinema with the whole community. Yet every week the whole community meets at the local church, there may be a local pub, in which case the whole community would meet there too, but not an underage teenager like Sarah.

Think about it though, what other ways of spending time with a teenager is there except for the consistent Sunday service?

and the church doesn't seem to be the best place to get together because as far as I know you can't talk in there.

It's not just the service, it's the entire Sunday ritual. Dressing up in the morning, getting ready, walking or driving to the church, getting out and chatting with friends and relatives, after the service you'll have some tea and more chat, maybe go for a drive afterwards and a meal out. The whole family enjoying eachothers company through the afternoon and perhaps a few drinks in the evening.

Why would you like to be in a place with the whole community? I prefer being somewhere with my friends not with a big bunch of people that I don't really care about. Also from my church-going experience I can tell that a lot of people go there just because of the habit and most of them seem really bored. It's not hard to tell that they aren't paying attention to the priest and they are only physically present there, their mind being far away. I also disagree with the idea of the "Sunday ritual", there are other options for a get-together with family and friends for a teenager. And btw, Sarah is 18, so she isn't underage.