Liberalism's Great Challenge?

[Minimalist]

A very interesting discussion.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/liberali...imination/

Liberalism’s great challenge: How can we critique ideas while still protecting people from discrimination?

Freedom to question is what allowed modernity to emerge from the Dark Ages, when religion ruled with an iron sword. To put it more concretely, this intellectual freedom, coupled with the scientific method (which forces us to ask the questions that could prove us wrong) has brought us the industrial revolution, germ theory, and the information age. As we face the future on an overcrowded planet stripped bare by human need and greed, innovation—cultural, economic, and technological—is our only hope of averting collapse.

For centuries the Roman Catholic Church and derivative Protestant religions have done everything in their power to obstruct freedom of thought, inquiry, and speech—from destroying heathen temples and texts, to torturing and executing heretics on a mass scale, to imprisoning Galileo and killing other early scientists, to—in modern times—censoring books and homeschooling children and incessantly threatening hellfire whenever they feel their grip slipping.

Still today, a frightening minority of Christians want to impose their biblical worldview on the rest of us by any means necessary. And that worldview includes truly ghastly concepts—like holy war, chosen people, male headship, blasphemy, genital mutilation, blood sacrifice, and eternal torture—all given the imprint of righteous authority by an inerrant Bible or infallible pope invoking the name of God. Biblical theocracy would look more like Saudi Arabia than America in the 21st Century.

The xtians, much as they hated it, have learned to deal with the fact that people are going to dismiss their bullshit.  Islam is going to have to get over this chip-on-the-shoulder attitude that their bullshit cannot be criticized.

[Crossless2.0]

The Christians weren't house-broken until after they had spilled a hell of a lot of each others' blood. I suspect the same will be true of Islam. Tolerance is not a virtue that is associated with the Abrahamic faiths. It comes as a result of fatigue, disgust, and enough people in positions of authority saying, "This bullshit needs to end."

[Jehanne]

The Christians weren't house-broken until after they had spilled a hell of a lot of each others' blood. I suspect the same will be true of Islam. Tolerance is not a virtue that is associated with the Abrahamic faiths. It comes as a result of fatigue, disgust, and enough people in positions of authority saying, "This bullshit needs to end."

Catholicism comes with infinite flexibility, as does nearly every other religion, Christian or otherwise.  The use of violence in the defense of religion is completely "justified," if there is really an eternal Hell where "poor sinners" go and if we can have 100% certainty of such a place and state.  After all, if someone broke into your home and was threatening your wife and children, would not you defend yourself, killing that invader, if necessary?  And, yet, a "heretic" (and, remember, the word 'heresy' means 'choice") were threatening the eternal salvation of your wife and/or children, why would you tolerate that person?

And, so, yes, violence in the name of a religion, if true, makes perfect sense, as long as there is a real, eternal hell with all the associated torturers and torments.  No afterlife, however, means tolerance towards an ever-declining set of beliefs, as well as tolerance towards Us, who have no beliefs.

[Minimalist]

This issue did cause the church some problem early on.  Latin provided an easy solution:  There are different words for personal enemy (inimicus) and a common enemy (hostis).
So, even though their supposed godboy did not speak Latin, when he said love your 'enemies' he only meant your inimici.  The pope would tell you who the hostii were and you were expected to kill those motherfuckers!

[Jehanne]

And they were just following the Old Testament, say, the story of David where he took delight in slaying the evildoers and non-worshipers of Yahweh.  In today's Church, it is almost as if the Old Testament has been entirely forgotten, except for those few cherry-picked passages that "demonstrate" love and/or tolerance.  Rarely, if ever, is the Old Testament approached holistically.

[Minimalist]

Except for the parts about queers.  Those the jesus freaks swallow whole.

[The Valkyrie]

I thought the biggest challenge was building death camps large enough for all our enemies?

[Cecelia]

One just has to remember and promote that there is a difference between people and ideas. You can dislike someone's ideas, while still treating them fairly.

[The Valkyrie]

One just has to remember and promote that there is a difference between people and ideas.  You can dislike someone's ideas, while still treating them fairly.

Hippy!!

[Thumpalumpacus]

[...] (and, remember, the word 'heresy' means 'choice") [...]

No, it doesn't. That is its etymology, not its definition or current usage. You'll find its meaning here.