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RE: I 'believe' in Evolution
October 24, 2012 at 12:43 am
(October 24, 2012 at 12:31 am)IATIA Wrote: (October 24, 2012 at 12:27 am)Polaris Wrote: It's like saying a mother who has had twenty children added twenty new citizens who will be able to vote one day but later you find out only one survived past childhood.
NO!
Not the same thing. In evolution, it only takes a small number to propagate.
Careful with that thinking....humanity has let species go extinct with that rationale.
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RE: I 'believe' in Evolution
October 24, 2012 at 12:44 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2012 at 12:45 am by The Grand Nudger.)
We are a driving force of natural selection (and evolution) for other organisms (as other forms of life have been for us). Careful: falling facts ahead.
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RE: I 'believe' in Evolution
October 24, 2012 at 12:46 am
(October 24, 2012 at 12:44 am)Rhythm Wrote: We are a driving force of natural selection (and evolution) for other organisms (as other forms of life have been for us). Careful: falling facts ahead.
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RE: I 'believe' in Evolution
October 24, 2012 at 11:35 am
My box was rattled last night, yes evolution is a fact, and there might be some shuffling around the edges, but if the world is real that is how it works. However there is a presumption that admittedly has not been mentioned on this thread, but has been implied on others, and that I come across often, and it niggles me, because it is used to justify ways of thinking and actions that I find anathema.
Survival of the fittest. There is a presumption that as we are highly evolved creatures, that slogan means the highly evolved are at the top of some pyramid and are the best. Thus we seem to get from this strong man theories and those of racial superiority. This is of course all bollocks. If a creature is successful and fitted to its environment there is little impetus to make its species change, thus it survives. If however a creature is having a hard time surviving so that only the most able of its offspring survive and the pool of creatures it can reproduce with is small any slight changes are going to have a pronounced affect. Looking at evolution this way we see that the successful, the fittest, is actually the species which has to adapt the least. Thus if there is a claim to being the dominant life-form the award has to go to Bacteria, or viruses, we are descendants of generations of animals that only just managed to scrape by.
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RE: I 'believe' in Evolution
October 24, 2012 at 11:39 am
True. It isn't so much survival of the fittest as it is survival of the fit. Fit means fit for the environment, and is not necessarily related to inherent power.
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RE: I 'believe' in Evolution
October 24, 2012 at 11:52 am
I always interpreted the "survival of the fittest" as inherent to one single species.
For a given species, only the fittest individuals survive and reproduce, thus spreading the fitness genes.
If no fit individuals exist for any given species, it becomes extinct.
Here, "fit" can be quite broad.
For example, you can cross a male donkey and a female horse, you have some chances of getting a mule. This is a hybrid species, not horse, nor donkey. However, it is not fit to propagate its genes.
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RE: I 'believe' in Evolution
October 24, 2012 at 11:53 am
(October 24, 2012 at 11:39 am)Darkstar Wrote: True. It isn't so much survival of the fittest as it is survival of the fit. Fit means fit for the environment, and is not necessarily related to inherent power.
Fitness really has very little to do with survival... unlike luck. All that being mighty will do, is increase your changes of surviving something that probably should have killed you (example: you're just barely fast enough to escape the volcanic eruption, while 90% of your species dies out.)
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RE: I 'believe' in Evolution
October 24, 2012 at 11:57 am
(October 24, 2012 at 11:53 am)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote: Fitness really has very little to do with survival... unlike luck. All that being mighty will do, is increase your changes of surviving something that probably should have killed you (example: you're just barely fast enough to escape the volcanic eruption, while 90% of your species dies out.)
They get lucky and become fit. The fitness is what saves them, even if they acquire it by dumb luck. This is referring to a species as a whole, over multiple generations. In a single generation, your analogy would apply better, as oposed to multiple generations. Maybe we mean the same thing and just worded it differently...
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RE: I 'believe' in Evolution
October 24, 2012 at 12:26 pm
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2012 at 12:26 pm by jonb.)
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RE: I 'believe' in Evolution
October 24, 2012 at 3:01 pm
(October 24, 2012 at 12:43 am)Polaris Wrote: (October 24, 2012 at 12:31 am)IATIA Wrote: NO!
Not the same thing. In evolution, it only takes a small number to propagate.
Careful with that thinking....humanity has let species go extinct with that rationale.
Right, careful in that thinking, I agree. Because evolution is about variety, some species do better as individuals, and others do better as groups. But it only takes one offspring to spread your DNA. Humans can have one female who goes on to have 5 kids, then one of those kids goes on to have 1 kid who goes on to have 3 and so on and so on. So it only takes one, but usually the more you produce the better your chances to spread your DNA.
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