Backwards nation

[John V]

Evolution be here!

Where? It says nothing of evolution in what you quote. I was just reading up on the development of the polio vaccine and it likewise didn't mention evolution. Vaccine development came from knowledge of how viruses and antibodies currently work. How they came to be that way wasn't important.

Physics be here!

NSS. As noted, the creationist disupte in the realm of physics is in age of the universe, which isn't a factor in the examples you gave.

[Aroura]

46% of Americans believe in Creationism!

Belief does not equal obsession. Do you consider all who accept evolution to be obsessed with it?

I never said they were obsessed with it, that was a word you used, not me. Red herring! It's irrelevant if they are obsessed with it or not. The point is the fact that 46% of Americans actively disbelieve science. And you don't think this is a factor in the US's declining state of education, technology, medicine, and science??...... Ok, then.

It's not a "peripheral issue", in 31 states creationists are trying to pass laws to get it taught in schools alongside evolution as an "alternate theory". And some have already managed to get those laws passed!
Tennesee law passed to teach creationism in public schools
That is be teaching religion in public schools.

This law does not allow creationism to be taught alongside evolution. If that's tried under the law, the law will likely be challenged in court and struck down, as others have been. Until creationists are actually successful in getting it taught in public schools, it's pretty tought to blame them for American decline.

That's just 100% innaccurate. It is actually being taught in some public schools in the US.
Evolution in public schools

There are states that teach the criticisms of evolution, such as Kansas and Ohio. And others who teach Creationism along with evolution, including Kentucky. Colorado and New York are two states that do teach evolution, but it is up to the schools, teachers, and counties on how this subject is taught and portrayed to the students.

Certainly, when anyone bothers to challenge it in court, they are told to stop, but it isn't always challenged when it happens.
And it most certainly is being taught to the children in private christian schools all over the country, as well as many home schoolers.

Stop trying to marginalize this issue by pretending it doesn't exist.

Creationist textbook

Like this:

Without an understanding of evolution, most modern day vaccines could not have been developed. Without an understanding of physics, radioactive isotopes and HOW THINGS AGE, your computer could not exist. Or your watch, your flat screen TV, etc.

See? Assertions without support.

The Berkley article is especially enlightening on how, specifically, scientific understanding of evolution alone impacts our daily lives.

And if you don't understand why physics is necessary for modern technology, I'm not even going to google that for you, as evidence is sitting right in front of you!

---

Evolution be here!

Where? It says nothing of evolution in what you quote. I was just reading up on the development of the polio vaccine and it likewise didn't mention evolution. Vaccine development came from knowledge of how viruses and antibodies currently work. How they came to be that way wasn't important.

Physics be here!

NSS. As noted, the creationist disupte in the realm of physics is in age of the universe, which isn't a factor in the examples you gave.

I typed up my whole reply, but now I see it was a complete waste of time. His example directly referenced evolution of disease causing organisms. You must have dismissed it without even looking at it!

Example: Climate change denial is DIRECTLY tied into the denial of the true age of the universe. This could impact us in the most extreme way possible!!! And if you don't think that climate change is an important issue, then you are a lost cause.

[pocaracas]

Evolution be here!

Where? It says nothing of evolution in what you quote. I was just reading up on the development of the polio vaccine and it likewise didn't mention evolution. Vaccine development came from knowledge of how viruses and antibodies currently work. How they came to be that way wasn't important.

Physics be here!

NSS. As noted, the creationist disupte in the realm of physics is in age of the universe, which isn't a factor in the examples you gave.

You do need everything to be spelled out, don't you?

contains a virulently modified strain called "BCG" used to elicit an immune response to the vaccine.

How do you think they modified a virus? Some "forced" evolution by tinkering with DNA. Hence Evolution!

The others, I just went with what was on the previous post.
If you want proof of the origin of the big bang, go research it. No one has yet managed a satisfactory answer to that. Maybe you can get there... but try to keep superstition off it, please.

[John V]

I never said they were obsessed with it, that was a word you used, not me. Red herring!

Actually it was a word Minimalist used IIRC, then I responded to him, and you jumped in and replied to my response. If you guys are going to play tag team like that, I need to assume consistency of position.

It's irrelevant if they are obsessed with it or not. The point is the fact that 46% of Americans actively disbelieve science. And you don't think this is a factor in the US's declining state of education, technology, medicine, and science??...... Ok, then.

As noted previously, differing Christian positions are usually only in the area of origins, and origins have not been shown to be a significant driver of America's economy or power.

This law does not allow creationism to be taught alongside evolution. If that's tried under the law, the law will likely be challenged in court and struck down, as others have been. Until creationists are actually successful in getting it taught in public schools, it's pretty tought to blame them for American decline.

That's just 100% innaccurate. It is actually being taught in some public schools in the US. [/quote]
Which ones? How many? What percentage of students are being taught creationism in public schools?

Evolution in public schools
There are states that teach the criticisms of evolution, such as Kansas and Ohio. And others who teach Creationism along with evolution, including Kentucky. Colorado and New York are two states that do teach evolution, but it is up to the schools, teachers, and counties on how this subject is taught and portrayed to the students.

Here's a more recent atheist source that says Kentucky doesn't teach creationism. Some lawmakers want it to, which obviously means it doesn't now. Kentucky does teach evolution, though.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2...sm-taught/

Certainly, when anyone bothers to challenge it in court, they are told to stop, but it isn't always challenged when it happens.

Where is it being taught?

Stop trying to marginalize this issue by pretending it doesn't exist.

I'm simply asking for facts rather than unsupported assertions.

The Berkley article is especially enlightening on how, specifically, scientific understanding of evolution alone impacts our daily lives.

Just links with the relevant material quoted next time, please, I'm not here to play games.

And if you don't understand why physics is necessary for modern technology, I'm not even going to google that for you, as evidence is sitting right in front of you!

For the umpteenth time, most creationists only dispute origins issues, and are fine with other uses of science.

I typed up my whole reply, but now I see it was a complete waste of time. His example directly referenced evolution of disease causing organisms. You must have dismissed it without even looking at it!

Quote it.

[Lion IRC]

Theres heaps of Christian schools in Australia that teach bible studies (including Genesis) and science - no conflict there.

[Minimalist]

Vaccines, computers and flat screen tvs certainly do not require "jesus" or any other invisible sky-daddy.

[John V]

Vaccines, computers and flat screen tvs certainly do not require "jesus" or any other invisible sky-daddy.

Nor do they require a 14 billion year old universe.

[KichigaiNeko]

Actually they do silly person you.

[Justtristo]

How big a factor do you think the continuing Christian backwardness is on the pace at which America is losing the scientific edge as it goes into relative economic/power decline?

I'd be much more worried about political influences corrupting science, than I would religion as a whole. It's the nations which have a Christian heritage which have traditionally contributed the most in science in our age. What has China, or North Korea contributed, for instance? Australia has a comparable population to North Korea, and we have a Christian heritage. North Korea is the most Atheist place in the world. Which of us has contributed more to science? Duh.

I beg to disagree, Australia is a much more atheist country than North Korea. I have personally seen polling by Christian organisations which have found out about 30% of the Australian population are effectively atheists for all intense purposes.

[Aroura]

No field of science exists inside a vacuum. The understanding of one field effects the understanding of another. If the physics of the speed of light are wrong (E=MC2 is one of the proofs of the age of the universe that YEC dispute), then our understanding of mass, velocity, gravity, etc would also be wrong, and those things effect biology, physics, medicine, technology, etc, because all of these things are intertwined. You can't just say "it's only the AGE of things we dispute, that doesn't affect modern science". Yes it does, because when you dispute the age, you are disputing almost all science, too.