personal relationship with God?

[Retorth]

Yes, I agree with you on that one. It would make everything alot easier. But...
God wants us to believe in him through faith. If He showed himself to the entire world, what would be the sense in faith?

Hi again Truth

I must say, from all the debating you've involved yourself with, you seem like a pretty patient guy and I truly respect that. I think it really takes a lot of faith and perserverance standing up for what you believe in. I think that is admirable.

Though I'm sure everyone here will agree with me that your undeniable faith and the resilience you show in maintaining your own stand is respectable, I just cannot register faith without any convincement. It's like the tales of lochness for example, people claim to have seen it and some firmly believe it exists, but until it actually shows itself, this won't be the case.

I know you mentioned seeing a meteor streaking across the sky when you asked your god for a sign of his existence and you interpret that as the sign. However, it could have just as easily been a coincidence that the meteor was in that path and would cross over anyway. How you can take that as a sure sign is just something I could never do.

[RevOxley]

In my discussions with christians I am always intrigued to hear them go on about having a 'real personal relationship with Jesus/God'

Further questioning reveals that they talk to Jesus and get a warm fuzzy feeling that Jesus is listening or guiding them in some way.

When I was a Christian I truly felt that I had this relationship...I'm probably one of the few people that have experienced something like that to still come out of Christianity. My "relationship" was just as real to me as speaking to my wife, except for this was something that I was constantly in. There is a verse in the Bible that says to pray without ceasing - I literally did that. All the time I felt like there was an invisible string connected between myself and my imaginary friend, God.

The warm fuzzies were common.

I have also met those people who not only talk to Jesus but get a reply!

yea...easily explained though---psychologically speaking, we can easily create an expectation of our deity and he will give us the answers that we require when we ask for them.

My own father in law is a born again fundie who just won't shut up about Jesus/God, all day every day. It starts raining and its praise God, it stops raining and its thank you Jesus. He also claims to be speaking with God/Jesus all the time and that God speaks to him. I am too afraid to ask if God is actually replying in an articulated voice or not as that will usually set him off on his favourite discussion - religion, for many hours.

I did hear the "voice" of God a lot. but not as often as I felt what can only be described as an unction to act or a feeling or a notion as to something I should do.

So I ask those on this forum who may be reformed christians - did you have ever have a personal relationship to Jesus and did he ever reply back to you when you spoke to him?

I guess I've already answered that

I am curious if my father in law is actually hearing voices or when he refers to God talking to him is he just referring to that fuzzy warm feeling.

only he would know that.

I recently did a blog post on Religion Vs Relationship after someone said that I had rejected religion because I had never had a relationship with Christ....stuff like that insults me greatly, because I gave god everything I had when I believed

[The_Truth]

I must say, from all the debating you've involved yourself with, you seem like a pretty patient guy and I truly respect that. I think it really takes a lot of faith and perserverance standing up for what you believe in. I think that is admirable.

I try to be patient with everyone. Getting upset and yelling at each other is a total and utter waste of time and bandwidth. The Atheist Vs. Christian debate has been going around in circles for thousands of years. I think it's time atheists understand Christians, and Christians understand atheists. We are an extremely intelligent force on this planet. I don't see the point in arguing and screaming at each other about the possibility of an existing God, or a non-existing God.

Though I'm sure everyone here will agree with me that your undeniable faith and the resilience you show in maintaining your own stand is respectable, I just cannot register faith without any convincement. It's like the tales of lochness for example, people claim to have seen it and some firmly believe it exists, but until it actually shows itself, this won't be the case.

I can understand you 100%. You are just one of these people that require solid evidence before you can believe in something. Well, I cannot give you that evidence, other than providing how the universe and life form was created at the beginning. I believe it took an exact science to create the human species. Even scientists are claiming "A perfect tempature was needed for the mixture to kick-start life".

1. How did "nothing" make sure the right temp was needed to create life form? Do some atheists believe this "nothing" was intelligent enough to create life form?

I know you mentioned seeing a meteor streaking across the sky when you asked your god for a sign of his existence and you interpret that as the sign. However, it could have just as easily been a coincidence that the meteor was in that path and would cross over anyway. How you can take that as a sure sign is just something I could never do.

Yes sir, the story about the meteor shooting across the sky is a true story. This happened to me about three years ago. I don't expect you (as an atheist) to believe it. But atheists should at least take into consideration the odds of something like this happening to someone is extremely rare.

God may not send me another sign as long as I live.
I can ask, "Send me another sign, please", and nothing will happen.

Why?

1. Because it already happened once. God will tell me; "How many signs do you want me to give you"?

The sign I was given, I will take to my grave that is was a blessed sign from above.

And from the atheist point of view >>

1. If it wasn't a sign from God. Why not let me live my life believing it was? Why do (some) atheists get so offended by signs like this? Maybe it wasn't God, or maybe it was. No one truly knows the answer. But I have a strong-faith that allows me to believe God was listening to me on that particular night.

God does work in mysterious ways.

On that same exact night, I could have been with 500 atheists, and I could have asked for the same sign, and nothing would have happened. And the atheists would have said, 'where is this God of yours"?

Life just has way too many mysteries to dismiss God that easily.

[theVOID]

---

I must say, from all the debating you've involved yourself with, you seem like a pretty patient guy and I truly respect that. I think it really takes a lot of faith and perserverance standing up for what you believe in. I think that is admirable.

I try to be patient with everyone. Getting upset and yelling at each other is a total and utter waste of time and bandwidth. The Atheist Vs. Christian debate has been going around in circles for thousands of years. I think it's time atheists understand Christians, and Christians understand atheists. We are an extremely intelligent force on this planet. I don't see the point in arguing and screaming at each other about the possibility of an existing God, or a non-existing God.

Though I'm sure everyone here will agree with me that your undeniable faith and the resilience you show in maintaining your own stand is respectable, I just cannot register faith without any convincement. It's like the tales of lochness for example, people claim to have seen it and some firmly believe it exists, but until it actually shows itself, this won't be the case.

I can understand you 100%. You are just one of these people that require solid evidence before you can believe in something. Well, I cannot give you that evidence, other than providing how the universe and life form was created at the beginning. I believe it took an exact science to create the human species. Even scientists are claiming "A perfect tempature was needed for the mixture to kick-start life".

1. How did "nothing" make sure the right temp was needed to create life form? Do some atheists believe this "nothing" was intelligent enough to create life form?

I know you mentioned seeing a meteor streaking across the sky when you asked your god for a sign of his existence and you interpret that as the sign. However, it could have just as easily been a coincidence that the meteor was in that path and would cross over anyway. How you can take that as a sure sign is just something I could never do.

Yes sir, the story about the meteor shooting across the sky is a true story. This happened to me about three years ago. I don't expect you (as an atheist) to believe it. But atheists should at least take into consideration the odds of something like this happening to someone is extremely rare.

God may not send me another sign as long as I live.
I can ask, "Send me another sign, please", and nothing will happen.

Why?

1. Because it already happened once. God will tell me; "How many signs do you want me to give you"?

The sign I was given, I will take to my grave that is was a blessed sign from above.

And from the atheist point of view >>

1. If it wasn't a sign from God. Why not let me live my life believing it was? Why do (some) atheists get so offended by signs like this? Maybe it wasn't God, or maybe it was. No one truly knows the answer. But I have a strong-faith that allows me to believe God was listening to me on that particular night.

God does work in mysterious ways.

On that same exact night, I could have been with 500 atheists, and I could have asked for the same sign, and nothing would have happened. And the atheists would have said, 'where is this God of yours"?

Life just has way too many mysteries to dismiss God that easily.

---

Or more correctly you could say 'life has way too many mysteries to assume the existence of god'

[Minimalist]

Christianity is a relationship with God, personally.

Careful that he doesn't try to borrow ten bucks from you. He's a lousy credit risk.

[The_Truth]

Christianity is a relationship with God, personally.

Careful that he doesn't try to borrow ten bucks from you. He's a lousy credit risk.

Why would God need to borrow 10 bucks?

[Edwardo Piet]

Well he certaintly seems like he has a trouble with the money thing. Seen as all that shit about Churches not getting tasked, etc.

EvF

[Kyuuketsuki]

Why would God need to borrow 10 bucks?

Beats me but its representatives always seem to need in and in rather large amounts!

Kyu

[The_Truth]

Why would God need to borrow 10 bucks?

Beats me but its representatives always seem to need in and in rather large amounts!

Kyu

I couldn't agree with you more!! I was watching a TV program called, "American Greed", and they showed these church leaders from "world ministries", and they were running a money scam in the name of God. They were showing footage of these scumbags (oops preachers) saying "God's love is greater than any money you shall contribute today, and God will give back your money 10 fold". These poor innocent people were giving $100,000, $200,000 to these guys. These people lost their life savings all because of these crooks. the FBI looked at their records, and they wondered why a church was receiving nearly $9 million a month.

I swear, If I was near any of these guys, I would blast them in the mouth for talking such nonsense in the name of God.

And I reject any tv preacher that constantly flashes an 800 number on the bottom of the screen with Visa and Matercard logo's beside them. These people are more worried about becoming millionaires from gullible people, rather than preaching the words of God.

I know I'm not supposed to judge, but I cannot stand these types of people. God has a place reserved for them.

I don't believe Jesus went around with a collection plate in his hands.

[Kyuuketsuki]

God has a place reserved for them.

Well fortunately it hasn't got one reserved for me but even if it did Hell's the place for me ... an eternity in Heaven with the theist assholes I've *met* would be hell for me anyway!

Kyu