islamic forums

[Minimalist]

Ive explained how yaum or ayaum has various meanings such as day, age, period of time.

You'd think a "god" would be more precise, no?

[paulpablo]

Sorry was at college. Ive explained how yaum or ayaum has various meanings such as day, age, period of time. And in the Qur'an a specific yaum has been used to refer to a 1000 years and a yaum being 50,000 years showing that a yaum doesn't always specifically mean a 24 hour day. Whenever ive been in Islamic lectures the speaker who understands arabic always specifies if 6 "yaums" are mentioned that in arabic it can mean a day or a period of time. Ive been in lectures from graduates of Medina university in saudi arabia who have said this. And as they have studied in the one of the best islamic university's in the world and know Arabic fluently they obv understand arabic. The point is it doesnt say "Day" it says yaum or plural ayaum which can mean day,age,period of time.

In response to why refer to why give an amount. Because Allah is saying he created the universe in six stages.

But as i just said the word "days" plural in english can mean age, period of time and so on. The days of shakespear the old days, the good old days and so on. But quantifying an unspecific quantity just seems odd.
Like walking into a shop and saying "ill have a few of those" makes sense. But saying "ill have 6 fews please"



Like i said i dont know arabic but it seems strange to me and i will look into it more. my main argument on the last forum i was in was with the man arguing with me saying day doesnt mean day, and we got so caught up on that we didnt even debate what the quran was saying.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

Sorry was at college. Ive explained how yaum or ayaum has various meanings such as day, age, period of time. And in the Qur'an a specific yaum has been used to refer to a 1000 years and a yaum being 50,000 years showing that a yaum doesn't always specifically mean a 24 hour day. Whenever ive been in Islamic lectures the speaker who understands arabic always specifies if 6 "yaums" are mentioned that in arabic it can mean a day or a period of time. Ive been in lectures from graduates of Medina university in saudi arabia who have said this. And as they have studied in the one of the best islamic university's in the world and know Arabic fluently they obv understand arabic. The point is it doesnt say "Day" it says yaum or plural ayaum which can mean day,age,period of time.

In response to why refer to why give an amount. Because Allah is saying he created the universe in six stages.

But as i just said the word "days" plural in english can mean age, period of time and so on. The days of shakespear the old days, the good old days and so on. But quantifying an unspecific quantity just seems odd.
Like walking into a shop and saying "ill have a few of those" makes sense. But saying "ill have 6 fews please"



Like i said i dont know arabic but it seems strange to me and i will look into it more. my main argument on the last forum i was in was with the man arguing with me saying day doesnt mean day, and we got so caught up on that we didnt even debate what the quran was saying.

Please inform me with what you find. But doesn't seem odd to me. God created the universe in six stages. Each with their own time span.
But as we don't know arabic all i can trust is the dictionaries and people who know it.

P.S. Just got my fluent arabic speaker friend to check the word يوم yaum pl. ايام ayyam.

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My friend just checked his dictionaries. The meanings he got were day, era and age.

He said that Hans Wehr’s is the best dictionary and this is where i got the translations "يوم yaum pl. ايام ayyam day; pl. also: age, era, time…" from.

P.S wanted to point out (duno if it was said later on in the post) but one of your translations you posted uses period.

Shakir
Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, and He is firm in power, regulating the affair, there is no intercessor except aher His permission; this is Allah, your Lord, therefore serve Him; will you not then mind?

[paulpablo]

yeh i basically get all my translations from a website i think its called noble quran or something.

I included the one that used the translation "period" because i am fair, i will admit that 1 of the 6 translations didnt use the word day but it still doesnt explain why the rest of them did use the word day.

From my point of view its because the majority of the translators used on that website thought it would mean day in that context

[Angrboda]

I think it's worth pointing out that the creation account in the Quran is not an independent account, and thus any harmonizing should also include showing that the Hebrew word for day, yom, also is used in this nonspecific way in Hebrew (and Greek) writings about the Genesis account.

For some additional material, see Answering-Islam.org - .

[Mystic]

Some mystics took the whole creation of 6 days with 7th being when God ascended to the throne, to be a metaphorical creation of the human.

[Aractus]

Sorry was at college. Ive explained how yaum or ayaum has various meanings such as day, age, period of time. And in the Qur'an a specific yaum has been used to refer to a 1000 years and a yaum being 50,000 years showing that a yaum doesn't always specifically mean a 24 hour day. Whenever ive been in Islamic lectures the speaker who understands arabic always specifies if 6 "yaums" are mentioned that in arabic it can mean a day or a period of time. Ive been in lectures from graduates of Medina university in saudi arabia who have said this. And as they have studied in the one of the best islamic university's in the world and know Arabic fluently they obv understand arabic. The point is it doesnt say "Day" it says yaum or plural ayaum which can mean day,age,period of time.

In response to why refer to why give an amount. Because Allah is saying he created the universe in six stages.

Though I don't agree with you, I can see you know you're Arabic well unlike the OP who thinks he knows more about a language he's never studied.

[paulpablo]

Sorry was at college. Ive explained how yaum or ayaum has various meanings such as day, age, period of time. And in the Qur'an a specific yaum has been used to refer to a 1000 years and a yaum being 50,000 years showing that a yaum doesn't always specifically mean a 24 hour day. Whenever ive been in Islamic lectures the speaker who understands arabic always specifies if 6 "yaums" are mentioned that in arabic it can mean a day or a period of time. Ive been in lectures from graduates of Medina university in saudi arabia who have said this. And as they have studied in the one of the best islamic university's in the world and know Arabic fluently they obv understand arabic. The point is it doesnt say "Day" it says yaum or plural ayaum which can mean day,age,period of time.

In response to why refer to why give an amount. Because Allah is saying he created the universe in six stages.

Though I don't agree with you, I can see you know you're Arabic well unlike the OP who thinks he knows more about a language he's never studied.

Wrong, i was relying on translations from a website which gave me several translations all saying the word day except one which said periods.
Pretty strange for muslims who put such great effort into preserving the quran to get the translation wrong 3 or 4 times.
Additionally i think I've already said i know nothing of arabic.

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Indeed, your Lord is Allah , who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He covers the night with the day, [another night] chasing it rapidly; and [He created] the sun, the moon, and the stars, subjected by His command. Unquestionably, His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah , Lord of the worlds.
Muhsin Khan
Indeed your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and then He Istawa (rose over) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty). He brings the night as a cover over the day, seeking it rapidly, and (He created) the sun, the moon, the stars subjected to His Command. Surely, His is the Creation and Commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!
Pickthall
Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!
Yusuf Ali
Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!
Shakir
Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods of time, and He is firm in power; He throws the veil of night over the day, which it pursues incessantly; and (He created) the sun and the moon and the stars, made subservient by His command; surely His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
Dr. Ghali
Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days. Thereafter He leveled Himself upon the Throne (How He did so is beyond human understanding). He envelops the daytime (with) the night, (which) seeks it out promptly, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars are subjected to His Command. Verily, to Him (belong) the creation and the Command. Supremely Blessed be Allah, The Lord of the worlds.

Have you heard the expression 2 out of 3 aint bad? well I'd say 1 in 5 is pretty bad. 1 in 5 of these translations of the quran is right. Actually not even right, just not specific enough to be completely incorrect. And this is just the standard website i always go to because of the fact it has several translations.
Oh and by the way i can see this is perfect evidence of why allah would use arabic for a language, it really is a "rich" language if you can't differentiate between 60000 years or whatever, and 6 days.


And also Judaism says 6 days, christianity says 6 days, next religion comes along which is pretty much based on the previous 2 religions says 6 days, then all of a sudden ohhhh wait no it COULD mean 6 periods of time. You don't have to be columbo to see that something is suspicious here even if you don't understand arabic.

[Aractus]

Wrong, i was relying on translations from a website which gave me several translations all saying the word day except one which said periods.
Pretty strange for muslims who put such great effort into preserving the quran to get the translation wrong 3 or 4 times.
Additionally i think I've already said i know nothing of arabic.

I'm not surprised you got banned at the Muslim forum - that kind of attitude is a trolling attitude. Just because they all translate the same English word doesn't mean the English perfectly conveys the meaning of the Arabic. You just need to get over that fact.

I'll give you an example in Greek:

• When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

All English translations say "love" every time where I have bolded for you. There is no disagreement. Now watch as I replace the English with the Greek words:

• When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you ἀγαπάω me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I φιλέω you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you ἀγαπάω me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I φιλέω you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you φιλέω me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you φιλέω me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I φιλέω you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

ἀγαπάω - G25:
1) of persons
a) to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly

2) of things
a) to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing

φιλέω - G5368:

1) to love
a) to approve of
b) to like
c) sanction
d) to treat affectionately or kindly, to welcome, befriend

2) to show signs of love
a) to kiss

3) to be fond of doing
a) be wont, use to do

φιλέω is the stronger word for love and ἀγαπάω is the weaker word. Notice that ἀγαπάω can be used for material goods like "I love this apple" whereas φιλέω cannot. Notice how the entire meaning of that short passage is changed when you understand the meaning of the Greek more, because English cannot convey the full meaning of the text since we only have one word for Love. You could almost imagine replacing the first two with "Like", although that would be a mistranslation, it gets across the fact that Peter is using the stronger term, as if it was "Like" like such:

• When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you like me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you like me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

Of course though that rendering is nonsensical.

This is probably a better way of doing it:

• When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I deeply love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I deeply love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you deeply love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you deeply love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I deeply love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

[paulpablo]

Wrong, i was relying on translations from a website which gave me several translations all saying the word day except one which said periods.
Pretty strange for muslims who put such great effort into preserving the quran to get the translation wrong 3 or 4 times.
Additionally i think I've already said i know nothing of arabic.

I'm not surprised you got banned at the Muslim forum - that kind of attitude is a trolling attitude. Just because they all translate the same English word doesn't mean the English perfectly conveys the meaning of the Arabic. You just need to get over that fact.

I'll give you an example in Greek:

• When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

All English translations say "love" every time where I have bolded for you. There is no disagreement. Now watch as I replace the English with the Greek words:

• When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you ἀγαπάω me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I φιλέω you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you ἀγαπάω me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I φιλέω you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you φιλέω me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you φιλέω me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I φιλέω you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

ἀγαπάω - G25:
1) of persons
a) to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly

2) of things
a) to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing

φιλέω - G5368:

1) to love
a) to approve of
b) to like
c) sanction
d) to treat affectionately or kindly, to welcome, befriend

2) to show signs of love
a) to kiss

3) to be fond of doing
a) be wont, use to do

φιλέω is the stronger word for love and ἀγαπάω is the weaker word. Notice that ἀγαπάω can be used for material goods like "I love this apple" whereas φιλέω cannot. Notice how the entire meaning of that short passage is changed when you understand the meaning of the Greek more, because English cannot convey the full meaning of the text since we only have one word for Love. You could almost imagine replacing the first two with "Like", although that would be a mistranslation, it gets across the fact that Peter is using the stronger term, as if it was "Like" like such:

• When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you like me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you like me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

Of course though that rendering is nonsensical.

This is probably a better way of doing it:

• When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I deeply love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I deeply love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you deeply love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you deeply love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I deeply love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

I've already made my 2 points clear,
1
It's strange that muslims who value the message of the quran so deeply would translate the quran correctly 1 in 5 times.
2
It's strange that the quran which is based on the torah and the bible seems to say the same as the torah and the bible with regards to the 6 day period it took god to create the earth then as soon as this comes under criticism muslim apologetics say the word doesn't mean day.

I wish you would make it clear what you're trying to tell me in simple words rather then LITERALLY talking greek to me.
Are you saying it's difficult to translate some words? well i agree but if it's your holy book I'd say put a bit more effort in next time lads. Try and get the majority of the translations correct instead of a confusing thousands of years with days.

---

Sahih International
Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

He placed therein (i.e. the earth) firm mountains from above it, and He blessed it, and measured therein its sustenance (for its dwellers) in four Days equal (i.e. all these four 'days' were equal in the length of time), for all those who ask (about its creation).

Some other parts of the quran where the word days seems to mean periods.
I love how god here is measuring sustenance, he doesn't have the power to just create the right amount. And how it takes him 4 days to do it.