Sup, im a christian

[fr0d0]

Saying the 'logic is presented' doesn't make the logic logical/relevant to the matter. Untill I know of any evidence for God in the argument I consider the argument to be bullshit, or gratuitous and irrelevant to the matter of God's existence at best.

Or until you get it more like

[Darwinian]

Or until you do

[fr0d0]

I understand JP's points. It's clearly obvious that he's answered everyone thoroughly and defended his POV without any successful counter from members here.

If you don't understand what he's saying then that's not a failure of his logic, but a failure in your understanding. EvF certainly doesn't 'get it'.

[Darwinian]

It's not that I/we don't understand what he's saying, we understand all too well. Which is why we keep going on at him to answer properly or at least not claim that his argument in any way constitutes evidence.

[Retorth]

fr0d0, clearly your post is biased. Obviously you understand his points..you and him think the same way...so whatever he says you'll agree without a moment's hesitation. How does it make you look when you defend him so vigorously lol You think that makes people here respect your opinion all the more? Uh uh...

You want to talk about failure to understand? You have failed miserably to understand the explanations made to yours and his illogical claims. It is a two way street. You need to open your mind to possibilities. If you are not even going to allow yourself to even consider what might be doubts, then what is the point of debate?

[Kyuuketsuki]

Arcanus and Jon Paul debate you all into the ground - I'm actually embarrassed at the lack of opposition. Jon Paul challenged you all and you have yet to make a slight impression let alone any serious rebuttal. Ass kicked? Yours surely has bin.

Actually I rather assume you were joking but if not I guess I agree with Rev ... but hey, you're entitled to whatever delusion you wish

Kyu

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@ Rev

Jon Paul's thread is here: http://atheistforums.org/thread-1477-page-1.html

Arcanus: just search for his posts.

What you miss Frodo is that an answer is not necessarily an answer i.e. it does not necessarily deal with or trump the points previously made and that is exactly the sort of thing that JP is guilty of ... take my argument with him about reality, nowhere has he actually managed to demonstrate that a virtual universe ois a more or even an equally reasonable likelihood. That's just one example. Another is your constant insistence that your god is indetectable by science, and should be (in essence the NOMA concept) ... I know what your arguments are, I understand them (much like I understand the psychobabble JP comes out with) but just because you continue to insist you are right does not now or ever mean you are right!

Kyu

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Our logic is sound. You cannot rebut it. Faith is based upon this logic, it is not in any way 'blind'. To prove that you would have to rebut the logic.

Er no, it's not ...

The evidence in your face is consistent logic, so you have no reason to conclude anything contrary. Yet you do. Which is my point.. you cling to marginalist philosophy that can't be logically defended to support your worldview.

... and will never be so until such day as you actually provide hard, validatable, empirical evidence! Philosophy alone has NEVER proven a damned thing and metaphysics can be somewhat cynically defined as a means of justifying that which cannot be demonstrated empirically.

If you want to demonstrate god YOU HAVE TO PRODUCE REAL, HARD,VALIDATABLE EVIDENCE!!!!!! YOU HAVE FAILED TO DO SO AND SO HAVE Arcanus, Jon Paul, The Truth and the fuckwit!

Kyu

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JP ADDRESSES a subject that exists outside the temporal realm! JP reasons precisely why it applies to Christianity and not any other spurious examples. It gives absolute credence.

And arguments have been presented against all of the points made. That YOU find the evidence compelling says more about your willingness to believe in fairy tales than it does anything else!

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EvF: You want me to think for you Evie? The logic is presented - deal with it or not, it's your choice

The logic is flawed!

Kyu

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You want to measure non temporal with temporal tools then? We can consider it AND reach logical conclusions. That's the subject.

Here we go again ... more fucking NOMA!

Kyu

[Edwardo Piet]

Or until you get it more like

More like untill any theist demonstrates that there's anything 'to get'. That there's any evidence for the existnece of God at all.

If you don't understand what he's saying then that's not a failure of his logic, but a failure in your understanding. EvF certainly doesn't 'get it'.

You're just making bare assertions.

I can just say that I've seen nothing that is evidence, and simply saying that it's evidence or that it's logical doesn't make it so. And saying that I 'don't get it' doesn't mean there's anything to get.

What you don't seem to get is that the fact there's no evidence for God - as you have agreed in the past and said many times that he cannot have evidence and that he's unprovable...in your original opening thread for instance! - so that you need faith to believe in him...doesn't mean you should! Ever thought about not believing because...lack of evidence is not a good thing?

EvF

[fr0d0]

And to summise precisely THAT Evie you have to cling to marginalist philosophy. Exactly my point.

@ Darwinian: He has provided a complete and logical argument that you haven't refuted.

@ Retorth: I understand his position and can affirm it is 100% in line with mine. Quite shocking as I've never seen evidence of a Catholic I consider to be a Christian. Up until now I was clinging on to an idea I held in principle to be possible. (Christians define 'Christian' as those that follow the Nicene creed)

As non Christians you can't accept what he says but you can logically follow it the same as I can. This is what I'm talking about.

I understand fully the challenges made and see that none come near to disproving the logic. I absolutely consider doubts all the time. I couldn't hold faith if I didn't. It's integral. Jon Paul has absolutely answered all comers. How you can say he hasn't astounds me. A huge denial of the facts in front of you.

@ Kyu: We just need to see the thread to witness your ass kicked dude

[Kyuuketsuki]

@ Kyu: We just need to see the thread to witness your ass kicked dude

Yeah and what fucking thread would that be?

Kyu

[fr0d0]

JP's thread