Not ashamed anymore.

[Brian37]

Their melodies were wonderful. As good as there is. And this is art and appreciation is always subjective.

mmmm, their melodies are jarring. it's when they bring all the instruments together that it becomes good. Until then? It's intentionally jarring to draw you in with the chorus.

To you it is jarring. Not us.

You are right that it is intentional though. Metallica uses the same tactic in songs like Fade To Black and One.

Down then UP then down then UP, to me that tactic when done right, can make a song very emotional and powerful. Like riding a roller coaster.

[Violet]

There is some magic in the voices. I might understand you might find the tone jarring. I don't. I love it. Instruments? Never noticed them. Hook lines, sure. Melody is something else, and the guys have a genius for it.

Some, perhaps... again: their choruses are typically well done across the board.

Pay attention to the background, and the harmony. Sometimes, they pull the melody out of their songs and just let the harmony go... by itself. Irritatingly, in a way designed to make the creative portions of your brain scream for the melody they expect to be there... creating a release of endorphins when they finally decide to play the music that they could have been playing the whole song at the chorus

A more talented group might make the whole song sound great, and their choruses sound fucking awesome... but this is ABBA we're talking about. They 'get it', the same thing that makes justin beiber so very successful

---

To you it is jarring. Not us.

You are right that it is intentional though. Metallica uses the same tactic in songs like Fade To Black and One.

Yup, and guess what my opinion of those songs is too

Down then UP then down then UP, to me that tactic when done right, can make a song very emotional and powerful. Like riding a roller coaster.

... I swear, that's got to be the most hilarious way to describe that ever... I'm not even dead-sure what you're describing XD

But I think we're on the same page: it's what allows them to be popular successes, while at the same time their music is rather shallow and (for the most part) what you heard as a passerby is the same thing you'll hear intentionally listening to it.

[fr0d0]

Are you suggesting 'formulaic' sister? Can't say I've noticed, but maybe I've been manipulated. I hate bland pop. Maybe the magic of Agnetha blinded me. Give me an example song so that I can be sure of what you mean. I don't see the problem with a climactic chorus. The few documentaries I've seen on them never mentioned this either. I also have to admit this isn't a purist musical interest for me. Nostalgia plays a big part.

[Violet]

Are you suggesting 'formulaic' sister? Can't say I've noticed, but maybe I've been manipulated. I hate bland pop. Maybe the magic of Agnetha blinded me. Give me an example song so that I can be sure of what you mean. I don't see the problem with a climactic chorus. The few documentaries I've seen on them never mentioned this either. I also have to admit this isn't a purist musical interest for me. Nostalgia plays a big part.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, and I get the nostalgia listening to them too (I grew up on music from about 20 years on either side of them). Anyway, an example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxg__4wiYlQ

Attention grabber, valley, transition to chorus, powerful/catchy/memorable chorus, valley again (shorter, again... it's when their instruments go solo that they are at their worst), transition to chorus, powerful/catchy/memorable chorus, and one more time before it closes with repeating the chorus over and over (gods but I hate that foreground base track). It's a formula that they exercise in a solid number of their songs, and I find it a jarring change... as Brian called it 'a roller coaster'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRUNlTYd3js

^Perhaps one of their better songs, from a lyrical standpoint... and the same thing. In no case known to me do they change it up (ever seen one start with their chorus? Of the 18 songs I have of theirs, I haven't found one that does anything different structurally). It's a basic formula, and it's used by a great number of conventional bands, and there are reasons it works... but if you cannot make good music varying from it: I'm going to consider that a major hit to your talent (say, you can only sing country... you can be the most talented country singer in the world, and I'll still consider you overall lesser than those whose talents are not so limited)

When the songs are over, usually the only thing that stuck from casual listening is the oft-repeated chorus, about 2 minutes of the first song isn't memorable, because they choose to not make it so (maybe giving them too much credit? lol). I consider ABBA on level with a great number of other pop artists... they just don't compare to the likes of pop's great musicians, and after a while of listening to their songs... most just start to blur together

[fr0d0]

Those songs that just repeat in my head when I'm bored I detest. Yes I know what you mean I guess. I'm trying not to let my illusion be shattered now so I'm gonna graceful bow out. Women are always right of course

[Brian37]

There is some magic in the voices. I might understand you might find the tone jarring. I don't. I love it. Instruments? Never noticed them. Hook lines, sure. Melody is something else, and the guys have a genius for it.

Some, perhaps... again: their choruses are typically well done across the board.

Pay attention to the background, and the harmony. Sometimes, they pull the melody out of their songs and just let the harmony go... by itself. Irritatingly, in a way designed to make the creative portions of your brain scream for the melody they expect to be there... creating a release of endorphins when they finally decide to play the music that they could have been playing the whole song at the chorus

A more talented group might make the whole song sound great, and their choruses sound fucking awesome... but this is ABBA we're talking about. They 'get it', the same thing that makes justin beiber so very successful

---

To you it is jarring. Not us.

You are right that it is intentional though. Metallica uses the same tactic in songs like Fade To Black and One.

Yup, and guess what my opinion of those songs is too

Down then UP then down then UP, to me that tactic when done right, can make a song very emotional and powerful. Like riding a roller coaster.

... I swear, that's got to be the most hilarious way to describe that ever... I'm not even dead-sure what you're describing XD

But I think we're on the same page: it's what allows them to be popular successes, while at the same time their music is rather shallow and (for the most part) what you heard as a passerby is the same thing you'll hear intentionally listening to it.

No one in this thread, least me ever claimed that ABBA was deep. But so what? Is everything in life supposed to be serious and no fun?

Oh and as far as Metallica not being deep? Most of it no. But Fade To Black is about suicide, And Justice For All is about our lopsided justice system. Blackened is about how we are destroying our planet. And "One" is about the horrors of war.

It still boils down to taste. ABBA was talented, not liking them did not mean they sucked, it just means you don't like them. Thats fine, lots of artists I don't like. Other sports I don't like, ect ect ect.

[Violet]

No one in this thread, least me ever claimed that ABBA was deep. But so what? Is everything in life supposed to be serious and no fun?

Really? ABBA fanatic and all, and you don't find any of their songs 'deep'? Not even 'the winner takes it all'?

Oh and as far as Metallica not being deep? Most of it no. But Fade To Black is about suicide, And Justice For All is about our lopsided justice system. Blackened is about how we are destroying our planet. And "One" is about the horrors of war.

The subject matter of a song doesn't apply to whether or not the song is 'deep' (a term I never used, and am not wholly certain of what means to you, but the connotation of it certainly doesn't seem to apply any more to dark songs than to songs of light).

Observe... layers. As good an example of 'deep and complex' without moving on to orchestras, internationally acclaimed composers (who aren't as talentless as a certain composer of harry potter and star wars soundtracks), and videos not taken from a street performance of such things

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl...UO6kYLb6As

When I think of a 'deep' song, I think of a song whose aesthetics and theme mesh well with ambiguous but also completely applicable lyrics... alongside interlocking layers of complexity which perfectly accent the themes explored within the music.

While depth and complexity are not necessarily correlated, well done complexity can add massive amounts of depth. And yet, this happens so rarely with music (as with games) that it's more likely one will find a 'deep' song in a simpler song that managed its aesthetics, theme, and lyrics well. Observe a song like this, somewhat deep... and yet very simple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKQpRgxyyqo

If I'm not mistaken, another great example of depth in a non-complex song is Eleanor Rigby by the same band.

It still boils down to taste. ABBA was talented, not liking them did not mean they sucked, it just means you don't like them. Thats fine, lots of artists I don't like. Other sports I don't like, ect ect ect.

It doesn't really boil down to taste... I actually enjoy Abba when I'm in a nostalgic mood But I am capable of recognizing that something I like isn't very good.

ABBA was good at one thing.

This is terrifying, humorous, and unrelated. Therefore I'm putting it here. Also, it's as deep as you could fucking want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elUIbi883v8