Woman burned alive for 'sorcery' in Papua New Guinea

[Drich]

So dictionaries are off limits, even though the actual defination is being played out before me?

Again not "us" Just One person specifically, and then I questions the motives of another because 'she?' wa using the same tatics. You are desperatly tring to make it about 'us' but as I have definativly proven, with your assistance, that 'all of you' do not share the same closed minded/unwilling to acknoweledge proven fact, even if it is demonstrated over and over again.

Which again, is the text book example of the word bigot.

Again you were not demonized. You were dismissed as a nuessance. There was only one person being demonized by his very own word thoughts and deeds. I simply pointed out that his efforts reflected the actions of a bigot.

Which is why you can't be taken seriously.

You have been told where to find your 'proof' and yet you will not do anything to seek it out.

Another way of putting it is I do not have any proof of dionsaurs, but i can provide you with an address of a museum with dinosaurs in it or provide you with a web site that talks about them, but in the end I personaly do not have any proof out side of what i read on those websites or what I personally experienced in a museum.

Like wise I have no 'proof' of God other than what I have experienced and what I have read. If you want to read something I can provide that if you want to experience something i can tell you how to prepare yourself to do that. The rest is between you and God.

Stop it, you know damned well why you used the word "bigot" so stop fucking lying.

Now cut the fucking crap. You ultimately have a pet invisible friend claim. So even before you get to one word of whatever fucking long winded claptrap you still are starting with an unproven naked assertion.

Here is how your logic works.

(Pull shit out of your ass)<=make up an elaborate formula(pull more shit out of your ass)<=coinciding outcome magically meeting your own personal desires.

Take a number, the Ancient Egyptians concocted the shitty claim that the sun was a magical being. The Nordics concocted Thor as their naked assertion starting point. Muslims concocted Allah as their naked assertion starting point.

Hindus have their concocted gods. Shintoists have their concocted gods. Mormons have their concocted crap.

All you have is a naked assertion and I see no fucking purpose in wading in your garbage anymore than I would consider the earth to be flat now that science knows better.

Two things: I used the word bigot to describe one member because his actions literally matched the oxford english dictionary's defination word for blessed word. Yes I did so because I could, but also to show the level of hyprocrisy he was willing to stoop to, inorder to convict 'christianity.' Essentually he had to become or drop his intergerity below those in whom he thought he was persecuting. but none of that mattered to him. Meaning he is not a man of principle nor honor, if he was willing to sacerfice the very same principle and honor he was fighting for to figurtivly come out with the same net result as those he condemned. that's what a bigot is Brian, and that is why I happily identified him as such.

the second thing? I wanted to add a 'created god' to your list. Science is the god of those who do not believe in god. It is the alpha, it is the omega, it is the beginning and end to everything you think say and do. nothing you believe in is not first approved by this 'god' science.

So no matter what you believe their is still a measure of faith being used.

[Anomalocaris]

Drich, nothing he could say damns christianity as completely as the fact that christianity produces imbeciles like you.

[Brian37]

Stop it, you know damned well why you used the word "bigot" so stop fucking lying.

Now cut the fucking crap. You ultimately have a pet invisible friend claim. So even before you get to one word of whatever fucking long winded claptrap you still are starting with an unproven naked assertion.

Here is how your logic works.

(Pull shit out of your ass)<=make up an elaborate formula(pull more shit out of your ass)<=coinciding outcome magically meeting your own personal desires.

Take a number, the Ancient Egyptians concocted the shitty claim that the sun was a magical being. The Nordics concocted Thor as their naked assertion starting point. Muslims concocted Allah as their naked assertion starting point.

Hindus have their concocted gods. Shintoists have their concocted gods. Mormons have their concocted crap.

All you have is a naked assertion and I see no fucking purpose in wading in your garbage anymore than I would consider the earth to be flat now that science knows better.

Two things: I used the word bigot to describe one member because his actions literally matched the oxford english dictionary's defination word for blessed word. Yes I did so because I could, but also to show the level of hyprocrisy he was willing to stoop to, inorder to convict 'christianity.' Essentually he had to become or drop his intergerity below those in whom he thought he was persecuting. but none of that mattered to him. Meaning he is not a man of principle nor honor, if he was willing to sacerfice the very same principle and honor he was fighting for to figurtivly come out with the same net result as those he condemned. that's what a bigot is Brian, and that is why I happily identified him as such.

the second thing? I wanted to add a 'created god' to your list. Science is the god of those who do not believe in god. It is the alpha, it is the omega, it is the beginning and end to everything you think say and do. nothing you believe in is not first approved by this 'god' science.

So no matter what you believe their is still a measure of faith being used.

Science is the god of those who do not believe in god

No, science is not a religion, science does not require faith. Science demands kicking the tires. Science demands testing and review. Science demands giving up on old data and adapting to new information when the data is confirmed. It is also universal, unlike religion. SCIENCE is why you are typing on your computer. You don't pray to your computer do you?

"faith" does not require testing. "faith" does not require anything but wishful thinking and false hope.

I don't believe in your god for the same reason you don't believe in Thor or Allah. You don't have faith in the god claims of others, I simply lack faith in one more god than you do.

---

Drich, nothing he could say damns christianity as completely as the fact that christianity produces imbeciles like you.

This is why I want Drich here, he does my work for me.

[Drich]

Two things: I used the word bigot to describe one member because his actions literally matched the oxford english dictionary's defination word for blessed word. Yes I did so because I could, but also to show the level of hyprocrisy he was willing to stoop to, inorder to convict 'christianity.' Essentually he had to become or drop his intergerity below those in whom he thought he was persecuting. but none of that mattered to him. Meaning he is not a man of principle nor honor, if he was willing to sacerfice the very same principle and honor he was fighting for to figurtivly come out with the same net result as those he condemned. that's what a bigot is Brian, and that is why I happily identified him as such.

the second thing? I wanted to add a 'created god' to your list. Science is the god of those who do not believe in god. It is the alpha, it is the omega, it is the beginning and end to everything you think say and do. nothing you believe in is not first approved by this 'god' science.

So no matter what you believe their is still a measure of faith being used.

Science is the god of those who do not believe in god

No, science is not a religion, science does not require faith. Science demands kicking the tires. Science demands testing and review. Science demands giving up on old data and adapting to new information when the data is confirmed. It is also universal, unlike religion. SCIENCE is why you are typing on your computer. You don't pray to your computer do you?

"faith" does not require testing. "faith" does not require anything but wishful thinking and false hope.

I don't believe in your god for the same reason you don't believe in Thor or Allah. You don't have faith in the god claims of others, I simply lack faith in one more god than you do.

---

Drich, nothing he could say damns christianity as completely as the fact that christianity produces imbeciles like you.

This is why I want Drich here, he does my work for me.

Oh, so your saying 'science' is 100% reliable 100% of the time? That absolutly no 'faith' is expended in believeing the current version of reality 'science' has offered you?

[Anomalocaris]

What intentionally disingenuous crap, you willfully moronic piece of christian shit.

Science is a process implemented by fallable humans, as such it can't be 100% reliable. In fact, iin greater scheme of things, at any given moment it offers only a modest increase, say a few percent, in reliability in many cases over pure random bullshit. But in every case where it has been tested, science is the only thing that offers any increase in reliability at all over pure random bullshit.

Faith, first amongst them all, offers no increase whatsoever, 0%, in reliability over pure random bullshit. Your bible is therefore no more reliable than a divinator's interpretation of the cosmic meaning of the shape of my dog's shit.

So when science at a given moment differ from the teaching of your bible, sience is not always right. But rest assured your fucking bible is almost absolutely assured to always be totally wrong.

What is more, while science is unreliable at any given moment in the grand scheme of things, it has some non-zero degree of reliability upon which to build. So over time, science becomes more reliable. Your fucking stupid bible, by having zero incremental reliability over pure random bullshit upon which to build, has no native abaility whatsoever to ever improve upon itself. This is why morons of your ilk keeps thinking fucking noah stuffed dinosaurs into a pitiful wooden tub whose dimensions continue to betray the pitiful maximum extend of some overreaching bronze age goat fucking moron's provincial idea of "really big".

[Esquilax]

Oh, so your saying 'science' is 100% reliable 100% of the time? That absolutly no 'faith' is expended in believeing the current version of reality 'science' has offered you?

Hey, perhaps you'd like to explain to us all why faith is a dirty word when used to describe science, but not religion? Or are you just that much of a mealy mouthed hypocrite?

Beyond that, no, there is no faith in science, because the moment that new things are discovered that prove an aspect of science wrong, science changes. Science has no faith because science has nothing to put its faith in; faith is belief without evidence, and science moves only within the realm of what it can prove.

Two things: I used the word bigot to describe one member because his actions literally matched the oxford english dictionary's defination word for blessed word. Yes I did so because I could, but also to show the level of hyprocrisy he was willing to stoop to, inorder to convict 'christianity.' Essentually he had to become or drop his intergerity below those in whom he thought he was persecuting. but none of that mattered to him. Meaning he is not a man of principle nor honor, if he was willing to sacerfice the very same principle and honor he was fighting for to figurtivly come out with the same net result as those he condemned. that's what a bigot is Brian, and that is why I happily identified him as such.

I have no bigotry, you human-shaped nexus of idiocy. Bigotry requires a target; I don't needlessly hate religious people, because I'm well aware that not all religious folks act the same. I have religious friends, I've dated religious people, and at no point have we had so much as an argument about that. I do, however, dislike religion both as a concept and as an institution because it causes horrible pain and holds back the progress of society while offering nothing that could not be achieved through secular means. Do you ever think that maybe the reason I come across as hateful to you is because I genuinely dislike you because you're a pig ignorant, lying, hypocritical oaf who does no credit to either your religion or your species? I'm halfway to writing off evolution once and for all because I refuse to believe that natural selection would allow the kind of fifth rate genes that make you up to have survived into the modern era. Maybe that's why I come across as hateful: I don't hate religious people in general, I just hate you.

[Mystical]

Boys boys boys! What will people reading this thread think at this point? I'll tell you what. That civility has been thrown out the window and your plausible arguments are now null and void. They aren't, of course, but if you just get into name calling then this thread will die. And I for one like this thread because it brings to light something that needs brought to the surface. Drich, please refrain from calling people names. It's unprofessional and obviously misleads the conversation. Fact is, 96% of the country claim to be Christians. Thus no bigotry is being conducted in conversing about whether this was the instrument of condemnation. That's what a discussion is all about. Stating what in the bible can be misconstrued by the New Guineans is not out of the realm of discussion here. More can be accomplished, civilly.

All this name calling and cat fighting horribly diminishes the matter of fact that a woman was set on fire here. A woman, was set, on fire.
Are we going to bicker until the next incident happens then do the same damn thing? Or are we going to figure out why it happened and prevent it from happening in the future?


Papua New Guinea cops save women from witch burning

PORT MORESBY: Papua New Guinea police have rescued two women accused of sorcery who were about to be set alight, a report said.
Thursday, 14 February 2013

Sorcery cases have been a priority for authorities after the horrific case of a 20-year-old woman who last week was stripped naked, doused with petrol and set alight before a crowd, Highlands divisional police commander Teddy Tei told The National newspaper. The woman, who was accused of causing the death of a six-year-old boy using sorcery, died after being tortured with a branding iron, tied up and set alight on a pile of rubbish in Mount Hagen in the Western Highlands. The National said in the latest incident on Monday, also in Mount Hagen, two elderly women were tied to poles and people were preparing to set them alight over the death of an eight-year-old girl.

The girl's relatives believed the women caused the death of the child using sorcery but Tei said she had been "gang-raped and killed by two known suspects" and these suspects were part of the mob attacking the older women. With them was a "glassman"- a man who claimed to have supernatural powers and who had identified the luckless women as sorcerers and claimed they were responsible for the child's death.

Tei said police, who were tipped off by a witness to the incident near Kagamuga Airport, rescued the women and arrested 20 suspects. He appealed to the public not to take the law into their own hands in the Pacific nation where there is a widespread belief in sorcery and where many people do not accept natural causes as an explanation for misfortune and death. "What evidence do they have to produce to court for sorcery-related killing and torturing?" Tei said. "It's just a belief."

Prime Minister Peter O'Neill has described as "barbaric" killings associated with sorcery and has instructed police to bring culprits to justice. "Barbaric killings connected with alleged sorcery; violence against women because of this belief that sorcery kills- these are becoming all too common in certain parts of the country," he said last week.

The government is encouraging families who are unsure about the cause of a loved one's death to take the body to a doctor to carry out a post-mortem. (Sapa-AFP)

[popeyespappy]

Careful Missluckie. You can't just run around posting facts in a thread like this one. You'll have Dirch looking for his gas can.

[Esquilax]

a woman was set on fire here. A woman, was set, on fire.
Are we going to bicker until the next incident happens then do the same damn thing? Or are we going to figure out why it happened and prevent it from happening in the future?

Well, that's kind of my point in claiming that it's a religiously motivated crime, as I've stated above. In fact, I think it's a fairly interesting debate; just how much can one interpret the bible before it ceases to be on message? And does that even matter, beyond the fact that the words therein motivate such suffering in the first place? Indeed, is it in the nature of the bible to encourage individual interpretation, in order to ensure its survival as a cultural meme- or rather, does the human willingness to interpret the words to keep the christianity-meme alive in any way lessen the culpability of the religion itself? I would argue that it doesn't, but of course, I seem to be the only one interested in having this conversation. Drich certainly doesn't.

[Brian37]

No, science is not a religion, science does not require faith. Science demands kicking the tires. Science demands testing and review. Science demands giving up on old data and adapting to new information when the data is confirmed. It is also universal, unlike religion. SCIENCE is why you are typing on your computer. You don't pray to your computer do you?

"faith" does not require testing. "faith" does not require anything but wishful thinking and false hope.

I don't believe in your god for the same reason you don't believe in Thor or Allah. You don't have faith in the god claims of others, I simply lack faith in one more god than you do.

---

This is why I want Drich here, he does my work for me.

Oh, so your saying 'science' is 100% reliable 100% of the time? That absolutly no 'faith' is expended in believeing the current version of reality 'science' has offered you?

There is a difference between pulling shit out of your ass, which is not a tool or a standard, and kicking the tires, and peer review, which IS a standard.

Scientific method WORKS otherwise you wouldn't be typing on your computer AT ALL.

Of course SCIENTISTS can be wrong, but that does not mean that the TOOL of method is at fault, that is why you have the standard of peer review, it acts as a quality control filter to insure the best data and to reduce risk of mistakes.

In religion all you have to do is sell bullshit, not test it. There is no requirement to do any type of independent testing. All you have to do is make shit up and swallow shit because it feels right.

SCIENCE FUCKING WORKS! It is why we went to the moon, it is why we have modern cell phones. It is why we have cures for certain types of cancer. It is why we have the super collider.

Credulity and gullibility created the sun god. Credulity and gullibility created Thor. Credulity and gullibility created Yahweh, and Allah, and Joseph Smiths magic underwear. God/s are nothing but the utterance of human ignorance. It is our species infantile cry for attention in our evolutionary history. It is our refusal to accept our finite reality. It is nothing more than our wishful thinking.

I am sorry if you don't want to face that, but that is your baggage not mine. I grew up and grew out of it. I don't need it. I live a very happy live without fiction or fantasy.

---

Superstition is a tool like a baby pacifier is a tool, it works only as a placebo, but it does not feed the kid.

---

What intentionally disingenuous crap, you willfully moronic piece of christian shit.

Science is a process implemented by fallable humans, as such it can't be 100% reliable. In fact, iin greater scheme of things, at any given moment it offers only a modest increase, say a few percent, in reliability in many cases over pure random bullshit. But in every case where it has been tested, science is the only thing that offers any increase in reliability at all over pure random bullshit.

Faith, first amongst them all, offers no increase whatsoever, 0%, in reliability over pure random bullshit. Your bible is therefore no more reliable than a divinator's interpretation of the cosmic meaning of the shape of my dog's shit.

So when science at a given moment differ from the teaching of your bible, sience is not always right. But rest assured your fucking bible is almost absolutely assured to always be totally wrong.

What is more, while science is unreliable at any given moment in the grand scheme of things, it has some non-zero degree of reliability upon which to build. So over time, science becomes more reliable. Your fucking stupid bible, by having zero incremental reliability over pure random bullshit upon which to build, has no native abaility whatsoever to ever improve upon itself. This is why morons of your ilk keeps thinking fucking noah stuffed dinosaurs into a pitiful wooden tub whose dimensions continue to betray the pitiful maximum extend of some overreaching bronze age goat fucking moron's provincial idea of "really big".

Don't feed the fundies. Scientists can get things wrong. But the TOOL is not a scientists, scientific method is a TOOL not a person. When you talk like this it allows them to confuse the hammer with the carpenter who builds the house.

Scientific METHOD is a quality control filter. It is the best tool humans have so far to measure reality.

So if that carpenter build a wall wrong, it science is like the building inspector who goes by building codes(method) inspects the house, and points out mistakes so they can be corrected.

And don't say more accurate when comparing the two. There is absolutely ZERO accuracy in religion, none. It is like comparing a real woman's nipple(nature and science) to a baby pacifier(mental placebo).

---

Beyond that, no, there is no faith in science, because the moment that new things are discovered that prove an aspect of science wrong, science changes. Science has no faith because science has nothing to put its faith in; faith is belief without evidence, and science moves only within the realm of what it can prove.

BINGO, it is why cars get recalled. It is why the 787s got grounded. It is why we have red and black boxes on airlines. So that when something goes wrong, we can learn from it to reduce mistakes in the future. Faith would be doing nothing at all.

Faith is when you get convinced that a comet will wisk you away from this planet, so you stupidly mix applesauce and booze with drugs. Faith is when you barricade yourself in a compound and murder 90 people. Faith is when you slam 4 planes into a building because you stupidly think you will get laid in a fictional afterlife.

Faith requires no oversight or testing. It requires no peer review. It is what allows people to believe all sorts of stupid crap. It is why people believe in horoscopes. It is why people think Ouija boards work. It is why people believe in the Loc Ness Monster. It is why people believe in crop circles being alien made instead of hoaxes perpetrated by assholes preying on the gullible. Faith is nothing more than if you want to believe stupid shit badly enough, no matter how false it is, you will.