Agressive?

[fr0d0]

No Frodo, this time you're wrong. Atheists can't indoctrinate (last time I checked 'I don't believe in gods' doesn't fit the bill, since it has nothing to do with principles or ideologies) and there's nothing wrong with making sure that your kids are inquisitive and will be able to learn without letting others say what they should learn.

I've seen it Kaye. Strong guidance with little rationalisation... It's exactly the same as bigoted information from any religious person. Atheists will openly say that they'd hate for their children to be "so irrational as to take up theistic belief". If that isn't bigotry in action then I don't know what is.

[Angrboda]

How dare those atheists not to tell their children what to believe!

[Confused Ape]

I think it could be down to how some atheists express their anger. They use obscenities and insults when talking to theists and some of those atheist de-motivational posters and cartoons are sick.

You are justifying any type of aggression from atheists by comparing them to how theists act. This is an "eye-for-an-eye" mentality. As the other old adage goes, "Don't stoop to their level."


So even though an atheist might not be aggressive in comparison to a theist, they still can in fact be too aggressive. Here's the problem with this... that aggressive behavior does nothing for an already bad reputation

I agree with this.

[fr0d0]

How dare those atheists not to tell their children what to believe!

When you hide under a homogenous banner these are the get outs you can use.

[festive1]

Atheists indoctrinating their children is child abuse too

So being honest with my kids and telling them that no one has all the answers (how the universe started, what happens when we die, why are we here), is indoctrination? I don't resort to, "You must obey. God is watching you all the time and knows your thoughts and heart. If you don't please god, then he'll punish you for eternity in a fiery hell." The latter sounds much more like indoctrinating and borderline abuse to me...

[fr0d0]

Atheists indoctrinating their children is child abuse too

So being honest with my kids and telling them that no one has all the answers (how the universe started, what happens when we die, why are we here), is indoctrination? I don't resort to, "You must obey. God is watching you all the time and knows your thoughts and heart. If you don't please god, then he'll punish you for eternity in a fiery hell." The latter sounds much more like indoctrinating and borderline abuse to me...

If I tell my kids that they are free to make up their own minds and give them all the information of all positions this is indoctrination? I don't resort to "you must be a lunatic to believe that", "Theism is irrational".... The latter sounds much more like indoctrinating and borderline abuse to me...

[festive1]

My boys are 6 and 4, far too young to make decisions about what they believe or not. I have and do explain that people have different beliefs about the big questions, but I also explain that no one knows if they are correct in their beliefs because no one has any evidence. I've never told them that religious people are crazy. I've taught them to be respectful of people's beliefs, but that asking questions does not equate to being disrespectful. Curiosity is a wonderful thing, and I whole-heartedly encourage it. Judging from my oldest's response to the Passover story, ("That's just weird.") I don't think they'll blindly follow what anyone says.

[Anymouse]

My boys are 6 and 4, far too young to make decisions about what they believe or not. I have and do explain that people have different beliefs about the big questions, but I also explain that no one knows if they are correct in their beliefs because no one has any evidence. I've never told them that religious people are crazy. I've taught them to be respectful of people's beliefs, but that asking questions does not equate to being disrespectful. Curiosity is a wonderful thing, and I whole-heartedly encourage it. Judging from my oldest's response to the Passover story, ("That's just weird.") I don't think they'll blindly follow what anyone says.

I taught my son (now twenty-five) to respect people, unless they show themselves unworthy of respect; not to respect ideas, unless they are shown to be true.

And faith is not a virtue, unless it is based on evidence. (For example, I have faith in my wife, because my wife has shown herself long ago to be worthy of my faith and trust. No religious belief has ever shown such evidence.)

On the other hand, accepting something on faith which is patently false (the world has four corners, or is six thousand years old, or was engulfed by a world-spanning flood) is delusion. Delusion does not require respect (though the person still does). In any other venue, such delusion would be worthy of treatment by a psychiatrist; religion gets a pass.

And if you are to respect religion, should you respect all of the many mutually-exclusive religions in the world? They can't all be right: they can all be wrong.

In the matter of religious belief, none of it can be shown to be true. And in the instant it is shown to be true, with evidence, reason, observation, or experimentation, it becomes science. Thus faith is not required.

Reason does not work on faith. Science does not work on faith. One does not read a scientific paper with such a line (ripping of Richard Dawkins here) that starts "it was privately revealed to the president of the Royal Society that an asteroid killed the dinosaurs."

I do not use the term "crazy," which my mother (a psychologist) says is a technical term for use by professionals only.

[Violet]

No Frodo, this time you're wrong. Atheists can't indoctrinate (last time I checked 'I don't believe in gods' doesn't fit the bill, since it has nothing to do with principles or ideologies) and there's nothing wrong with making sure that your kids are inquisitive and will be able to learn without letting others say what they should learn.

You can indoctrinate a child with 'there are no gods' just as easily as you can force upon them your god(s).

In this case, the parent is dictating what the child learns, and pushing them away from curiosity. There is nothing excusable about propaganda, only justifications made by the proselytizer.

---

How dare those atheists not to tell their children what to believe!

More than one kind of atheism, dearie.

[Zone]

I don't think anyone tells their children that Zeus and Appollo don't actually exist. I asked my dad about those when I was about 5 or something and he said those gods were only local to those countries. So I took it mean that they existed but they only lived in Greece.