Agressive?

[jackkazim]

Sooner or later we all get the excuse from theists about how we're "too aggressive". Too aggressive? Really? If I could compare all the times theists and atheists approached me: telling me to join them, leaving flyers on my car, yelling at me for not agreeing with them, etc. Atheists have not done that in my experience. Theists on the other hand do that a lot in my experience! The one thing that contributes to this, it the sense of entitlement theists have. The sense of entitlement to power and the sense of entitlement to censor dissidents. The fact that those play a role in this, makes me laugh when a theist calls an atheist aggressive, even in cases where it MIGHT be true. Because this atheist movement threatens theist power so they have to resort to making up things, just to seem like the victim. The other day, my teacher said, atheists are closed minded and impossible to debate with. In any debate I've seen, the atheist is always more respectful. I mean really we should try not to be douchebags to each other. But please just spare me the complaints about atheists being "too aggressive".

[Violet]

Too agressive? If you're ever feeling agressive, just calm down and ask yourself "a year from now, how much will this matter to me?". If the answer is anything less than 'a great deal': stahp. It isn't worth looking like a dick.

Or maybe it is, worth being subjective and all. It's not nearly so worthy of attention as a pretty lullaby, I believe we can all agree?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCBaKT2isHk

[NoahsFarce]

Here's my issue with this subject and your post OP:

You are justifying any type of aggression from atheists by comparing them to how theists act. This is an "eye-for-an-eye" mentality. As the other old adage goes, "Don't stoop to their level."

To be quite honest, many atheists do go overboard in my humble opinion. Dawkins, although I do love his lectures, is a bit extreme for my tastes. He goes as far as calling the act of placing children in churches "child abuse." I can easily think up dozens of examples where that label is more befitting.

Then you have atheist groups going up-in-arms over billboards and bus advertisements. Why? Is a billboard or advertisement going to change your mind on religion? If it does, there's a lot more to worry about in terms of the mind being duped. Not sure I want someone that gullible on my side.

So even though an atheist might not be aggressive in comparison to a theist, they still can in fact be too aggressive. Here's the problem with this... that aggressive behavior does nothing for an already bad reputation. We aren't going to win any wars by protesting the most benign things. I can really give two flying squirrel turds about what someone puts up in their yard during Christmas. I don't care if you put your children in church. I don't care what you advertise as long as it isn't vulgar/profane. I personally find the plethora of skinny models on billboards more offensive than a silly quote like, "Big Bang? You've gotta be kidding me." And I am a lover of astronomy!

Let's just keep our focus on education. The vast majority of the overzealous theists I encounter are lacking in that department.

[fr0d0]

Good post noahsfarce

[Angrboda]

I think your OP is conflating two separate senses of the term aggressive. One is to be more than assertive in attempting to establish one's presence and command of an environment. The other has to do with anger, hatred, a tendency towards violence, and "seeing red." I think it's the aggression in this latter sense which I think most theists are picking on. Whether it's a valid complaint or just a self-serving distortion is another matter. It's a part of Western culture, inherited from Plato and Augustine on down that strong emotions are a part of "the bad part of ourselves," of the body rather than the spirit, and so western ethics emphasizes emotional tepidity and self-control. From that background, anything smelling of strong emotions is immediately suspect, and even, perhaps, a symptom of a character flaw (or a mental illness). I haven't thought it through a lot, but I see atheist aggression as primarily an expression of righteous anger, of caring about people and the world enough to not let it be fucked over by belief in irrational fairy tales. There's also the element that, historically, even presently, the religious are guilty of a lot of evil and oppression at the behest of their beliefs, so there are very real things to be angry about.

I can't say I've sufficiently thought through the whole matter, but I don't see atheist aggression as in itself a bad thing (assuming it exists). I guess that raises two questions. Why do theists think the specific aggression of atheists is a bad thing? And, independent of what theists think, is it in fact a symptom of a problem. (ETA: It also occurs to me that anger is often a reaction to misunderstanding and strong differences of opinion. Because of both the differences themselves, and because things like cognitive dissonance encourage us to ascribe lying, delusion, or stupidity to those we disagree with, anger becomes a natural result. Same thing with Republicans and Democrats, alternative medicine and traditional medicine, Justin Bieber fans and everybody else....)

You might want to watch the Greta Christina video I recently posted, "Why Are You Atheists So Angry?" It's 45 minutes, but it's very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUI_ML1qkQE

[Kayenneh]

He goes as far as calling the act of placing children in churches "child abuse." I can easily think up dozens of examples where that label is more befitting.

Though I mostly agree with your post Noah, these sentences caught my eye. Indeed, there are even worse things to do to children, but it's like comparing spanking a child with a brush and forcing a child to burn his hand on a hot stove, both are detrimental to the child's health and abuse, though one is worse than the other. Do not overlook 'mild' abuse, just because there are worse things out there.

[fr0d0]

Atheists indoctrinating their children is child abuse too

[Kayenneh]

No Frodo, this time you're wrong. Atheists can't indoctrinate (last time I checked 'I don't believe in gods' doesn't fit the bill, since it has nothing to do with principles or ideologies) and there's nothing wrong with making sure that your kids are inquisitive and will be able to learn without letting others say what they should learn.

[jesus_wept]

Atheists indoctrinating their children is child abuse too

In much the same way that telling a child the tooth fairy doesn't exist is child abuse?

Once atheists start chopping bits of their child's body off because they're atheists I might agree atheism is on par with the abuse religious people heap on their offspring.

[frankiej]

Man, you are all being so aggressive... calm down.