For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus

[jstrodel]

I am not an expert Bible scholar or historian but there is plenty written to rebut many of these claims. A lot of the Bible criticism methodology is very shaky and speculative. Look up Bruce Metzger or NT Wright.

[Minimalist]

[EGross]

[Confused Ape]

Ah, yes...Ignatius.

If you're going to disregard the idea that Ignatius quoted Paul's epistles that just leaves the First Epistle Of Clement from the right time period because only fragments of Melito's writings survived.

IF Paul was an actual person who lived a century before Justin and wrote these critical epistles it simply boggles the mind that Justin never heard of him and used the name.

As I said before, Justin must have heard of Paul if he knew about the Marcion heresy. You're convinced that Justin should have used Paul's name, so go through all his writings and find some where Paul and his adventures ought to have been mentioned but weren't. Explain why you think Justin should have included them.

If Paul was this towering figure in the first century bringing this semi-jewish shit loaf to gentiles then the Gentiles should have known all about him and revered him, shouldn't they?

Did you find any more writings from the right time period where Paul ought to have been mentioned and revered? We need sources dating from when Marcion was a child or before to find out when the tradition about Paul might have got started.

It is obvious that that entry was posted by someone who did not have the text hand as I do. There is no "Ben Pandera", in the pre or post censored versions (that was a name in a much later "Toldot Yeshu" story that would come centuries later), but either "min" or "Talmid Yeshu". The use of the incorrect name would indicate a merging of sources by the author(s).

Stupid Wikipedia!

That's why it's best to check the wikipedia sources and dig them up if they're available online. I'll have another look to see if there's a complete version of Epiphanius's Panarion 30 because I've only found a lot of quotes from it so far.

[EGross]

Try here for the complete version of Epiphanius's Panarion.

[Confused Ape]

[EGross]

Well, Jews probably heard it sometime along the way, chuckled and passed it on. I have checks some of my texts, and I don't see some of the early commentators mentioning it, but I do recall are more than one Yeshivah where it was mentioned with a chuckle. If I can find a Rabbinical source that repeats it, I'll post it. I did a scan for פול (a Hebrew form pronounced "pole"), unfortunately, that is also the word for a kind of a bean, so all I got were cooking references for holidays!

Although there are also a king of that same name of Ashur (assyria) mentioned a lot as well. No Notzri, though.

[Confused Ape]

If I can find a Rabbinical source that repeats it, I'll post it. I did a scan for פול (a Hebrew form pronounced "pole"), unfortunately, that is also the word for a kind of a bean, so all I got were cooking references for holidays!

I hope you manage to find something because I'll be very interested in reading it.

[Minimalist]

[EGross]