Is the Christian God fair?

[Mystic]

I would post this on Christianforums.com were it not for my fear that I would get banned. I've been get warnings and infractions every time I post something that challenges Christianity. Apparently it's part of the rules of the site that I don't post such things.

The basic problem I find is the following.

A non-Christian can be more praiseworthy then a Christian in most actions and spirit and some beliefs.

An example of beliefs is that a non-Christian can believe we ought to not do slavery while a Christian can believe we ought to do it, and that it's endorse by the Bible per his interpretation.

A Christian doesn't become immune to bad actions.

Now why is a Christian saved and non-Christian not saved? It's essentially that the latter has not believed in Christianity while a Christian has.

When asked why does God punish, it's stated it's because of justice. And when asked why does God then save some from his wrath, it's because of his grace.

Then God is being choosy. This would be somewhat justified if his choice was based on the merits and actions of the person.

But it's based on belief of that person alone.

Furthermore, there seems to be a another problem, in that many Christians will believe out of confirmation bias or simply being born into the religion. Many Christians have not read the Bible.

Can it really be said that all there faith has been out of love of the light or guidance by the holy spirit?

Is it not rational to conclude that Christians believe in their religion for similar reasons other people of other religions believe in their religion, and this irrespective if it's a true religion or not.

[CleanShavenJesus]

No religion/God is fair to people outside of that religion. The Quoran gives Muslims the ability to murder in the name of Allah. The Bible says that Heaven's gates will only open to those who believe.

It's a central aspect of every religion: fear. Believe in this religion or something bad will happen to you. It makes humans anxiously scurry to pray and worship like a bunch of rats at feeding time. It's a disgusting thought.

So, no, no God is fair, including Yahweh.

Remember that time he killed 3 million people because they were excersising free will? Noah's Flood, good times, good times.

[Mystic]

The Quoran gives Muslims the ability to murder in the name of Allah.

Where does it do that?

[CleanShavenJesus]

The Quoran gives Muslims the ability to murder in the name of Allah.

Where does it do that?

A couple of verses...

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you [there] then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.

2:216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

2:244 Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearer, Knower.

5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.

[Minimalist]

Any moment now, CSJ, one of them will come along and insist that if you read it in the original arabic and hold it upside down those sections you read about killing infidels are really about petting puppies and kittens.

[John V]

I would post this on Christianforums.com were it not for my fear that I would get banned. I've been get warnings and infractions every time I post something that challenges Christianity. Apparently it's part of the rules of the site that I don't post such things.

The basic problem I find is the following.

A non-Christian can be more praiseworthy then a Christian in most actions and spirit and some beliefs.

An example of beliefs is that a non-Christian can believe we ought to not do slavery while a Christian can believe we ought to do it, and that it's endorse by the Bible per his interpretation.

A Christian doesn't become immune to bad actions.

Now why is a Christian saved and non-Christian not saved? It's essentially that the latter has not believed in Christianity while a Christian has.

When asked why does God punish, it's stated it's because of justice. And when asked why does God then save some from his wrath, it's because of his grace.

Seems you've answered the question yourself.

First let's note that fair can have two meanings in this context: equal, or deserved.

Biblically, everyone deserves punishment. However, some people are spared punishment, and even given reward. So, no, God isn't fair in either sense of the word.

I don't see why you even need to ask this. You note yourself that salvation comes from grace. Grace is by definition unmerited favor. Related to it is mercy, which is by definition unmerited forbearance of punishment.

Then God is being choosy. This would be somewhat justified if his choice was based on the merits and actions of the person.

Yes, God is being choosy. The Bible makes that clear:

Romans 9
15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

But it's based on belief of that person alone.

Grace and mercy, being unmerited, can be based on anything (or nothing) the person in power to bestow it chooses.

Furthermore, there seems to be a another problem,

You haven't shown that there's a problem at all. Yes, salvation is unfair. Being saved myself I rejoice in that, as fairness in both senses of the word would require my eternal damnation.

[Mystic]

Any moment now, CSJ, one of them will come along and insist that if you read it in the original arabic and hold it upside down those sections you read about killing infidels are really about petting puppies and kittens.

Or to read it in context.

[Minimalist]

Yeah....the context nazis work hard in xtianity, too!

[Mystic]

You haven't shown that there's a problem at all. Yes, salvation is unfair. Being saved myself I rejoice in that, as fairness in both senses of the word would require my eternal damnation.

Well he can be fair by being graceful to non-believers too. In this sense, he is isn't implementing justice (you won't go to hell), but he isn't being unfair to others (they won't go to hell when they have done more praiseworthy things then you).

The problem with showing you it's wrong of God, is that morals are often reduced to properly basic intuitions or beliefs or knowledge.

Furthermore, not only is it unfair, it's cruel.

[Question Mark]

The question is interesting, but I think that comes eventually to a single fork in the road.

A great many followers of the abrahamic faiths have this notion that god is loving and merciful, yet also just and vengeful. Mercy directly conflicts with justice, for if god is to be merciful to someone who has committed a crime, then he must forfeit justice to accommodate that sense of mercy.
If he is to be just, he must set aside his mercy, and condemn the guilty for their crimes.

After this, we get into the, and I hope theists will forgive my bluntness here, the absolute bullshit standards and laws this god has set in place. Being born, for instance, since our ancestors did something bad. Not loving him, being another. I mean what truly caring individual, or what rational, good individual, tortures someone for eternity because they didn't love them?
That's pretty damn sick. I'm not worshiping that deity.