Was pi invented or discovered?

[Lion IRC]

What is the ratio of circumference/diameter for an imperfect circle called?
3.14159 ?

Imperfect circles actually DO exist in real life and they can be assigned an approximate C/D ratio. (Cant they?)

Surely if Lawrence Krauss can talk about 2+2=5 (exceptionally high values of 2) then we can have various types of pi.

[Angrboda]

Surely if Lawrence Krauss can talk about 2+2=5 (exceptionally high values of 2) then we can have various types of pi.

[voltaire]

If Darwin says that blacks are soon going to die off and sick children in the hospital should die off because they are all the weaker of the species in "the descendants of man" then it is that what you guys believe too?

Darwin said nothing of the kind,and he wont be saying it anytime soon since he's dead,lying for jesus still results in lying.

[Aractus]

"Red" is not an intrinsic property of light, it's merely a way for humans to describe how our eyes perceive certain wavelengths.

Actually, for us it is. The light is processed by our retinas for all intents and purposes as if it was actually made up of RED, GREEN and BLUE. Of course there are still no primary colours, and you're right that colour is just a wavelength, however that is in fact how we see the world, and why colour-blindness typically affects one of the colour processors in our brains.

"Circle" is the name of a defined surface area, which exists in the physical world. Circles have always been there, but the name for them is a human invention.

Incorrect. Circle is the name of a mathematical object. It is relatively easy to produce and generate in mathematics, but doesn't actually exist in the real world due to real-world limitations.

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What is the ratio of circumference/diameter for an imperfect circle called?
3.14159 ?

Lion, try to keep up. "Imperfect circles" are "regular polygons" which have a high number of sides - eg 9,000 sides.

Imperfect circles actually DO exist in real life and they can be assigned an approximate C/D ratio. (Cant they?)

They have an exact C/D ratio - Pi is the "approximate" since it's infinitely imprecise. You calculate it using triangulation, in other words the 9,000 sided regular polygon can be broken down into 9,000 Isosceles Triangles identical to each other. You only need to know the length of the shorter side (let's say it's 1/9,000th of the total "circumference" of your "imperfect circle"). All you need is the angle. The interior angle (ie at the centre of the polygon where the two long sides of the isosceles triangle meet) is equal to 180/9000. The other two angles are (180 - (180/9000))/2. Exactly 89.99 degrees (not a bad number considering I chose 9,000 at random).

The formula you need is: K = 0.5 x c2 x sin(89.99)2/sin(0.02). c = 1/9,000th of your circumference.

Say for example you have a circle, circumference 1500mm. But it's actually a 9,000 sided regular polygon. What's the area?

K = 9000 x 0.5 x (1500/9000)2 x sin(89.99)2/sin(0.02).

Rather complicated. You get the same results using Pi much easier, just knowing the circumference (1500mm):

Area = Pi x ((1500/Pi)/2)2

I hope I didn't make any errors above...

[The Grand Nudger]

Actually, for us it is. The light is processed by our retinas for all intents and purposes as if it was actually made up of RED, GREEN and BLUE. Of course there are still no primary colours, and you're right that colour is just a wavelength, however that is in fact how we see the world, and why colour-blindness typically affects one of the colour processors in our brains.

Bolded and italicized the important bit, in other words it's not. No more than 1 is an intrinsic property of a single cow, for us. Unless you're okay with 1 being a property of a cow, I'm not okay with red being a property of light.

Incorrect. Circle is the name of a mathematical object. It is relatively easy to produce and generate in mathematics, but doesn't actually exist in the real world due to real-world limitations.

Because math doesn't exist in the real world /thread...... A mathematical object that describes a defined area. Tell me, Arac, what is preventing such a circle from existing anywhere there is space to be defined into areas?

"I can't draw one with my pencil therefore they don't exist"

[Angrboda]

"Red" is not an intrinsic property of light, it's merely a way for humans to describe how our eyes perceive certain wavelengths.

Actually, for us it is. The light is processed by our retinas for all intents and purposes as if it was actually made up of RED, GREEN and BLUE. Of course there are still no primary colours, and you're right that colour is just a wavelength, however that is in fact how we see the world, and why colour-blindness typically affects one of the colour processors in our brains.

[LastPoet]

I actually find the several shades of grey (not the fucking romantic sex book) quite interesting.

[Lion IRC]

What is the ratio of circumference/diameter for an imperfect circle called?
3.14159 ?

Lion, try to keep up. "Imperfect circles" are "regular polygons" which have a high number of sides - eg 9,000 sides.

So can an imperfect circle have an imperfect, approximate ratio of its circumference divided by its approximate diameter?

We are allowed to describe something as an imperfect circle arent we?

[Tiberius]

"Red" is not an intrinsic property of light, it's merely a way for humans to describe how our eyes perceive certain wavelengths.

But those wavelengths exist...that's my point. Just as one could argue sounds don't actually exist, but are only our ways to describe certain oscillations that reach our ears.

A wavelength is an intrinsic property of light, and we can measure it (and call different wavelengths different colors). Numbers however, are not intrinsic to anything in the universe, just as the names of colors aren't. Numbers (and names of colors) are inventions of humans to describe other things in the universe which are more abstract, like the number of cows, or what we see when a certain wavelength of light hits our retina.

"Circle" is the name of a defined surface area, which exists in the physical world. Circles have always been there, but the name for them is a human invention.

Not true, at least not when talking about mathematical circles, or circles that are defined by Pi (the exact number). What you might think of a circle in the real world, may be close to what a perfect mathematical circle might look like (compared to other things, like a square for instance), but it is nowhere near a perfect circle. Take any circle you find or construct in the real world, and zoom in. You'll see that the edges are not perfectly rounded; there are multiple imperfections, and if you measured the circumference and divided by the diameter, you would never get close to Pi.

Bolded and italicized the important bit, in other words it's not. No more than 1 is an intrinsic property of a single cow, for us. Unless you're okay with 1 being a property of a cow, I'm not okay with red being a property of light.

Red isn't a property of light; I don't think I ever claimed it was. I said it was the name of a color. I probably could have been more accurate and said it was the name of our interpretation of a wavelength of light, but that's the definition of a color anyway!

Because math doesn't exist in the real world /thread...... A mathematical object that describes a defined area. Tell me, Arac, what is preventing such a circle from existing anywhere there is space to be defined into areas?

"I can't draw one with my pencil therefore they don't exist"

What is preventing such a circle from existing? I went over that in my first post. A perfect circle requires Pi to be irrational; a non-repeating infinitely long number. Such numbers cannot exist in the real world, given their properties which do not exist in the real world. Additionally, a perfect circle would have to have an infinite number of points on it, each one the same distance from the origin. An infinite number of points would require an infinite amount of space and matter, which we simply don't have. So no, you can't have one anywhere in the universe. They exist only in mathematics.

[Cinjin]

If it has been decided that pie was invented, someone please thank that guy for me...