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RE: Argument from perpetual identity against naturalism.
March 19, 2013 at 6:05 pm
Go get buff beefcake..lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Argument from perpetual identity against naturalism.
March 20, 2013 at 11:53 am
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2013 at 11:55 am by Mystic.)
A properly basic belief is a belief that seeks no justification from other premises.
It can have other premises believed in it, like "belief in identity", but if the statement is not justified from other premises, then it's properly basic.
Note that sometimes statements can be justified from other premises but are still believed in first in a properly basic manner.
For example, it's good to appreciate our parents goodness and love towards us. We may have believed that in a properly basic manner, but would be able to support that belief when we grow older.
I would say many of our beliefs are believed first properly basically, then justification is sought later.
For example, rape is evil and wrong. We believed that first properly basically, but can probably support it and justify that belief from arguments. But we had that belief and it was justified, before, knowing those arguments.
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RE: Argument from perpetual identity against naturalism.
March 20, 2013 at 12:11 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2013 at 12:14 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Your belief in a perpetual identity doesn't depend on a belief in identity for justification? That would be an interesting situation to be in..lol. You have a perpetual identity even if you do not have an identity, do you?
No dice amigo, but that's just my opinion.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Argument from perpetual identity against naturalism.
March 20, 2013 at 12:15 pm
How does belief in a identity prove a perpetual identity?
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RE: Argument from perpetual identity against naturalism.
March 20, 2013 at 12:18 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2013 at 12:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It doesn't, but belief in a perpetual identity depends on the justification of a belief in identity, which is why I couldn't call it properly basic. A properly basic belief isn't just any old thing you cannot or don't care to prove but would like to assert....its a belief that does not depend upon the justification of any other belief...
One might, if one wished, consider identity properly basic, for example, but the actions or attributes of that identity couldn't be....
(I'm aware that there are other frameworks for what might constitute such a thing, but I haven't seen any that would allow your idea of a perpetual identity to meet the criteria of "properly basic", always looking though)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Argument from perpetual identity against naturalism.
March 20, 2013 at 12:27 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2013 at 12:29 pm by Mystic.)
If it doesn't prove it, then whether you have to believe in identity to believe in perpetual identity, it's still properly basic. It's only not properly basic when it is proven by other statements or rather believed based on other statements proving it.
Going back to the example that it's good to appreciate our parents goodness and love towards us, it takes concept of parents (belief in that), belief in goodness, concept of love as well, but it's still a properly basic belief most of humanity has.
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RE: Argument from perpetual identity against naturalism.
March 20, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Properly basic, in my understanding, is not a measure of what is proven, but what depends upon the justification of other beliefs, to which both your examples of perpetual identity and whether or not it's good to appreciate ones parents both fall into.
Why would you have to consider either properly basic? I don't. I could give you about a billion reasons why you would want to appreciate your parents that I don't have to wave my hands around and say "Oh, that's just properly basic"
Laziness Mystic....
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Argument from perpetual identity against naturalism.
March 20, 2013 at 12:35 pm
As I stated, we can justify properly basic beliefs. For example, it's very possible to justify why we should appreciate our parents love and goodness towards us. BUT BUT...we believed in it first in a properly basic manner and a few of us seek justification after.
And your understanding of properly basic beliefs is not in the way people use the term. The way the term is used is not that other beliefs are not required in that belief, it's that it's not justified from inference.
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RE: Argument from perpetual identity against naturalism.
March 20, 2013 at 12:39 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2013 at 12:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 20, 2013 at 12:35 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: As I stated, we can justify properly basic beliefs. For example, it's very possible to justify why we should appreciate our parents love and goodness towards us. BUT BUT...we believed in it first in a properly basic manner and a few of us seek justification after.
And your understanding of properly basic beliefs is not in the way people use the term. The way the term is used is not that other beliefs are not required in that belief, it's that it's not justified from inference.
It's not......?
"Foundationalism holds that all beliefs must be justified in order to be believed. Beliefs therefore fall into two categories:
Beliefs that are properly basic, in that they do not depend upon justification of other beliefs, but on something outside the realm of belief (a "non-doxastic justification")
Beliefs that derive from one or more basic beliefs, and therefore depend on the basic beliefs for their validity"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_belief
Clearly 'some' people use it this way...... I don't think that we're disagreeing over how "some" people use the term..yourself for example...but about whether or not "some" people's...yourself for example...use of the term is accurate...
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Argument from perpetual identity against naturalism.
March 20, 2013 at 12:54 pm
It doesn't depend on justification from other beliefs.
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