Why are atheists so obsessed with religion?

[Jackalope]

The response was, "You should not need evidence. He does not need evidence. He is above requiring such things. He demands faith."

I like how you handled that. I myself have tired of tilting at windmills.

The point where someone starts telling me what I should do, is the point where the conversation ends. There's just no point in arguing with someone who can always retreat into faith or play the "works in mysterious ways" card.

[Cyberman]

I myself have tired of tilting at windmills.

I know exactly what you mean. This is how obsessed I am with religion: Earlier today (well, more accurately yesterday) I was taken to visit some friends of a friend. They were already aware of the history of my personal circumstances and sympathised with my loss, at which point one of them offered the well-meant but clichéd platitudes that we'd be reunited in the afterlife etc. He said he's not a devout believer or anything like that, but had been brought up to believe that there's some fluffy 'happy ever hereafter' (his point but my words). This is exactly the sort of reaction I've avoided attracting until now. It's quite simply annoying and unwanted.

Anyway, I just kept silent and noncommittal, until my very dear friend told them that I have my own beliefs on this matter and that I'm an atheist (cheers, Shelly ). The reason I say that is because this attracted a recitation of personal testimony, something to do with this guy spending some time homeless and hungry and then chancing upon a church holding some sort of feast/celebration thing, thus enabling him to be fed - it was all pretty vague. Anyway, did I think it was just coincidence or random chance. I waited patiently for the punchline, then said there's no way I can comment on personal experiences even if I wanted to - which I didn't. Fortunately the conversation meandered in other directions after that.

[CleanShavenJesus]

He asked me how I can turn my back on Jesus, someone who died for my sins.

[Ben Davis]

Yes, of course not all. I thought we were talking about the obsessed ones.

Many of the statements about atheists in this thread have the appearance of gross generalisations (or are generalised enough to run the risk of warping definitions) so I'm making sure we're staying specific.

yes, fundamental atheist is a subset of atheism. I totally agree. I thought that was a given.

I was very precise in my language to try & avoid the error in your statement here: there's no such thing as 'fundamental atheism' in the way you mean it. You're conflating 'antitheism' (opposition to theism) with 'atheism' (absence of theism). So antithesim is a subset of atheism but (and here's the crucial part) so is any other value system except theism. Because atheism holds no value systems, in & of itself, it has no 'fundamentals'.

yes, to your last part too. The last time I said ignore them, it won't matter, the flower child took over and screwed us all.

I get over zealous sometimes. You are correct.

Fair enough.

[Fruity]

In what page can I find Gabriel's take on all of this? I keep looking for his replies, since he was looking forward to the opinions, but I can't find what he has to say. I might be missing something. Either that, or he's trying real hard to not seem obsessed with atheists, though he is lurking around.

[Creed of Heresy]

He asked me how I can turn my back on Jesus, someone who died for my sins.

The fucker didn't die for my sins. I committed all of them long after he supposedly died.

Oh but Min, don't you know? All humans are INHERENTLY sinners! Jesus died to expunge us of a sin that was actually the fault of his skydaddy but was actually the fault of humans because leaders are never responsible for their underlings, their underlings are totally autonomous except that they can be influenced by the leaders heavily at random and with no real pattern or reason to it. That's what the bible says so it must be true I can't keep trying to type this with a straight face oh god my sides are killing me

[Tonus]

Oh but Min, don't you know? All humans are INHERENTLY sinners!

It makes you wonder why god allowed the devil and demons to live when he wiped out most of humanity with the flood. There really wasn't any reason not to. Like Adam & Eve, they were presumably perfect beings who had crossed him and turned humanity away from god's glory. Mankind gets wiped out in a flood. Satan gets to make Job his personal bitch. The demons get to possess pigs and run them off of a cliff. Why does mankind almost get wiped out, but the fallen angels get to play THE BEST VIDEO GAME EVER?

Preposterously unfair.

[smax]

Just today, a few hours ago, I had a guy ask me what religion I was. I told him I was an atheist. This began a discussion that went on for about fifteen minutes. I told him that I once believed in God but over the course of several months I came to realize that there was no evidence for any god. That was ten years ago.

The response was, "You should not need evidence. He does not need evidence. He is above requiring such things. He demands faith."

I warned him that he best not get into a debate with me on god because he can't win, at least not in the objective, analytical sense. Still, he talked about the Bible and how it is a necessary moral guide. I asked him about the Bible's advocacy of slavery, as well as the stoning of unruly children. He told me that he ignores those parts. I told him that I ignore all the parts, just like I would ignore a person who seems friendly and moralistic at first, until he professes his approval of slavery. He is then seen as entirely unethical, which in turn fits with my moral beliefs.

He asked me how I can turn my back on Jesus, someone who died for my sins. I told him that there is no evidence of that happening, and besides, how does being crucified an act of "dying for my sins", especially since he did not stay dead.

I think I hit him with concepts he had never considered. Still, I doubt I ushered a Christian onto a path to atheism. He walked away with a perplexed, confused smile on his face. Hey, I warned him.

I hear you, and can relate on several levels:

1. I was a Christian, and now I am completely non-theistic.
2. Conversations with non-theistic people played a role in my conversion
3. I have had conversations with people of all types of religions, and some of those conversations have led people to question and eventually break free of their religion.

With that in mind, I will share a little perspective. First, my conversion didn't take place over night. In fact, after the right seeds had been planted, it took years. And that conversion was only partly due to interactions I had with non-theistic people.

The grip of and appeal of god based religious association is so strong that people would rather practice it in ignorance (or even in disbelief) than to openly accept more practical views.

There are lots of reasons for this hesitance and even refusal to break away. The biggest deterrent is the potential social consequences. It's actually not that difficult to persuade someone to question their religious belief, as nearly all of them defy even the most basic elements of logic and reality, and many present those practicing it with moral inconsistencies and dilemmas. However, inspiring someone to doubt their beliefs is a long way from open conversion. These people typically have friends, family, associates, and even co-workers, bosses, and employers who happen to share their religious views.

Openly admitting that you doubt or don't believe like them seems like social suicide.

With that said, I've come to realize that open conversion should not be nearly as important to me as is effectively accomplishing doubt while inspiring logical reasoning and critical thinking.

Because, at the end of the day, it's actually not that important to me to share the same open views as others, although that is nice. What's far more important is leading people away from actually having any real conviction behind their god based beliefs.

If someone feels they have to call themselves Christian or Muslim because of their background or the social pressure they feel they have to meet, so be it. I find that much easier to rationalize and accept than someone who actually believes in the delusion and is capable of acting on it. People like that are potentially dangerous on a number of levels. Here are two of the most important:

1. Deluded people, like for example: David Koresh, Jim Jones, Osama Bin-Laden, just to name a few, are capable of committing all kinds of atrocities in the pursuit of their god based religious beliefs.

2. God based religions tend to promote hate and bigotry, which a huge obsacle currently standing in the way of social progress. However, people without the conviction of their beliefs tend not to act on them, and instead demonstrate a level of tolerance that still allows for a healthy degreee of social progress.

With all that having been said, I feel the important thing that you may have accomplished, and the reason I would encourage all free thinkers to engage theistic people in related conversation, is the possibility that you may de-fuse them so to speak.

Putting it another way, some people say "we need to get rid of guns". I say we just need to get rid of the bullets.

[frz]

I don't think I have any obsession with religion. The reason that it is a topic of discussion at all is I grew up with it. I was taught from since I could remember that there is a god and its rules that I should follow. Now that I've come to this understanding that there is no god I have to also wonder why others believe in it and why was it taught to me as a child. Those reasons and the fact that the religious hate those of us so much who no longer share their views. Other than that I could care less about religion. In fact I've already grown tired of the argument before I even signed up on here.