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Fate?
#11
RE: Fate?
(March 19, 2013 at 9:19 pm)futilethewinds Wrote: I do not subscribe to predetermination, if that's what you are asking. Unlike Nietzsche, I do think free will exists. If you're interested in what Nietzsche thinks, he says that basically in a situation where there is a choice, you would always make the same choice under the same set of circumstances, so you are not really choosing anything.

first how do you define free will? what makes you think free will exist? and it`s not so much what i define as fate but how would you define fate?
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#12
RE: Fate?
(March 19, 2013 at 9:31 pm)justin Wrote:
(March 19, 2013 at 9:19 pm)futilethewinds Wrote: I do not subscribe to predetermination, if that's what you are asking. Unlike Nietzsche, I do think free will exists. If you're interested in what Nietzsche thinks, he says that basically in a situation where there is a choice, you would always make the same choice under the same set of circumstances, so you are not really choosing anything.

first how do you define free will? what makes you think free will exist? and it`s not so much what i define as fate but how would you define fate?
Free will is the ability to make one's own choices.

The word "fate" really has many meanings, so I picked "fate" as determinism to respond to. If you are thinking about something else, I can try to address that as well.

The only evidence I have one way or another is my own experience, and in my own experience, I have been able to make choices freely and consciously.
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#13
RE: Fate?



Eppur si muove

I consider the question moot. Fated or not, we will never cease to struggle against the bonds. There are reasons for this, but I'd have to take you rather far down the rabbit hole to explain.

It is an apriori fact that we are free. Whether we are in fact free or not, is somewhat irrelevant for most purposes, except perhaps ethics and finding yourself, but that's yet another rabbit hole I will defer to explore.


[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#14
RE: Fate?
Compatibilism is fate worded differently in my opinion. Yes you make decisions freely, no, they aren't non-caused by anything but you, but rather determined :S

You can choose to act as you will but can't decide your will :S

Libertarian free-will is what I believe in.
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#15
RE: Fate?
(March 19, 2013 at 9:09 pm)justin Wrote: So you don`t see any reason to believe in fate? how would you define fate? as far as the chemical coded path would you consider that a form of natural fate? I know i`m sounding crazy but i haven`t seen much discussion on fate (free will, yes) but not so much fate. just curious really.

No, I don't. And though I know that death comes to us all, I'm convinced that there isn't an expiration date. It's based upon your decisions when and where you die. As for the decisions (e.g. 'free will') I think that we are most likely to behave according to a certain pattern that is the sum of our genes and environment we were nurtured in, but that doesn't say that we can't do the things we were most unlikely to do. If it's one thing that humans are known to be, it is to be able to adapt to change. We are not static beings, but quite malleable. If it is in our control or not what we choose to do and which changes are forced upon us is beyond me, but as I said, in this case I'll settle for the illusion that I can chose and have an impact on my own life, fully knowing that it might be that I don't.

The definition of fate according to me is that no matter what you do, you cannot avoid a certain event, that all your choices will ultimately lead to a set point in time. Death is the closest thing I can imagine being such a thing, but as I earlier stated, it doesn't fill this criteria fully. Death is certain, but it's never fixed that you have to e.g. die in a car accident the 22.3.2020.
So do I consider it a 'natural fate'? Yes, but it isn't individual, it comes to all, so rather than to think of it as fate, I'd like to think that it is just the last stage of life.
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura

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#16
RE: Fate?
If we define fate as simply the path that our lives take, then yes, I believe in fate because it's impossible not to. If we define it as a pre-determined path from which we cannot deviate and which we cannot know, I'm ambivalent about it. If we can't tell the difference between a reality where we make our own choices and one where some undetectable agent makes our choices for us, the discussion seems moot.

I prefer to believe that we guide our own lives and not that we follow a programmed path from which it isn't possible to deviate. I think it's natural to want that, to feel that our decisions are purpose-driven and not a higher form of instinctual reaction. If it's not true, and I cannot find my connection to the matrix, then I'll treat fate like I treat god.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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#17
RE: Fate?
So i guess my next question would be more on "natural fate". Is that the same thing as determinism?
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