The prize of Christianity

[Esquilax]

Is god the source for good because he says so, or is he the source of good because it is inherently good?

Neither, you dope. He is goodness itself.

So, the former, then? Euthyphro's dilemma doesn't actually have a third answer, Chad.

[Drich]

In order for anyone to seek something out as a lifestyle or major decision in life at all. It must be personally appealing on some level, right?

In one sentence or less, what is it you seek to obtain from being a Christian?

I only ask because the alternative seems to be thrown around so often. But if you ask some Christians, its certainly not the fear of Hell that drives them to Christianity, its..."blank".

There would be nothing admirable in an intelligent person seeking a belief out of fear. They would have only been manipulated into saying such things and in the darkest places of their minds, doubt exists.

Is it heaven everlasting that interests you? Does that sound pretty good?
Is that anymore of an admirable reason to practice a faith?

If I want my son to behave a certain way, I want him to do so because he knows its right. Not because he'll be rewarded for behaving and punished for disobeying me.

Wouldn't it be more meaningful if people had ZERO knowledge of the possible outcomes that faced them after death, and it was those pure decisions they made in life on which they were graded on. Untainted by selfish hopes of a golden kingdom, everlasting life or the fear of unrelenting torture. Wouldn't that be the only way you could see whether or not you were successful in getting your children to do what is right?

The act of dying on the cross wouldn't even be neccessary if everyone has already been endowed with a sense of morality. They certainly don't need to crucify a man to know in their heart what the difference between right and wrong is.

Once you have the intelligent thinkers capable of making sound moral decisions, all you really would need to do is sit back and watch.

The only reason to interfere would be if that actually isn't what you what you wanted out of them.

If there were something MORE important that God wanted from his children that was more valuable than altrustic acts of pure goodness performed with integrity and with no expectation of award or punishment.

...worship, fear, artificial words, hypocritical lip service and false sentiment.

These are the things that can be gained by demanding praise. Demanding love or else. They've been done for centuries by history's most notorious dictators.

If the pure of heart is what God wanted, then there was no need for all of the other terrible acts of suffering and misguided texts.

What a mess!

Your 1/2 right, For we are told only the beginning of wisdom is fear. In other words Fear maybe the initial driving force, but who's fault is it if this is the only way you see God? Peace, Attonement, Grace, Forgiveness, Understanding, These are the things God offers us to allow us to become sons in His kingdom. But again, if you can only see fear then you haven't read your own bible, and have allowed your particular expression of faith/denomination do all of your thinking for you.

[Tonus]

So, the former, then? Euthyphro's dilemma doesn't actually have a third answer, Chad.

That made me chuckle. "Neither, you dope. It's the first one."

[Neo-Scholastic]

So, the former, then? Euthyphro's dilemma doesn't actually have a third answer, Chad.

The Euthyphro's dilemma was developed in a polytheistic culture. I doesn't really apply to monotheism.

[The Reality Salesman01]

Your argument was weak to begin with.

To begin with it was actually more of a plea for explanation. I described your beliefs as I saw them with hopes that a believer could make them seem less pathetic. You just happened to be the guy that came in and confirmed all the predisposed notions I had about your belief. If you want to call it a weak argument, I guess you could, but you kinda just went along with all of it and said "Yup! I believe that crap!" The fact that you saw no flaws in my depiction tells me that you do not see any of it as unreasonable, and as Freud would say: "You cannot reason with insanity".

No, fear is the beginning of wisdom, but you grow out of fear and into love.

No, Fear is a choice. It is a necessary feeling that drives many other ones. However, what you are describing is a-Love me or I'll beat you-relationship. In this country, that is illegal.

What, because I said some days I don’t want to go into work? LMAO!

No, because when giving an example of a time fear motivates you, your job was the first thing that came to mind. Also, the fact that you described the only thing motivating you to continue your job on those days was fear of being homeless. Some people like their jobs, and it is enough to look forward to accomplishing something that drives them into work, not a fear of being homeless. There was more to that reply than was on the surface. What's the job you keep to avoid being homeless again...not a deacon is it? or do those not get a cut out of what comes from the collection plates on Sunday?

It’s just a matter of hours in the day. You’re young yet, but you’re gonna blink, and you’ll be me.

You have no evidence for such a prediction.My guess is that I'll be an older version of me.

There you go with humility again. Lots of people see that as a positive.

Humility in the form of being humble can be a positive, but the way you subscribe to it is that of a cowardly beaten dog. I hope you don't have pets.

Oh please, speak about what you know. I’m a husband, father, deacon, professional. In short, I have a lot more happiness, dignity and pride with god then I did on my own, when like half the people on this board all I cared about was getting some pot or booze.

Not that you would know any better, but sense you brought it up, I too am a husband, a father and a professional. I have been in the military for 10 years. I have seen more of the world than most could imagine. The experiences I've had are what has defined me. The only thing I don't share on your brag sheet is that I do not hold an arbitrary title given by a cult. I don't smoke pot (military) but I do ejoy the occasional glass of wine. But, assuming ignorance in others and passing judgement is what being a Christian is all about, huh?

By the way, How does your wife feel about the whole-Love me or I'll beat you- outlook on relationships? Lol, I hope its only Gods that are authorized to beat love out of you in that house. No actual physical effects could ever come from that. Just self deprecating beliefs.

On a lot more than that. You think you’re hot shit. You’re not. But welcome to the boards!

You think there's a God, there's not, you haven't made any convincing suggestion to the contrary, and thank you for your kind welcoome.

[Esquilax]

So, the former, then? Euthyphro's dilemma doesn't actually have a third answer, Chad.

The Euthyphro's dilemma was developed in a polytheistic culture. I doesn't really apply to monotheism.

I really don't see how that could be the case, though of course I'll listen to your reasoning, if you feel like elaborating. In any case, I'm having trouble envisioning a reason why one wouldn't be able to just reduce the question from multiple gods to one god.

[John V]

To begin with it was actually more of a plea for explanation. I described your beliefs as I saw them with hopes that a believer could make them seem less pathetic.

That my beliefs are as you see them, and that such beliefs are pathetic, is an argument. You contradict yourself in two sentences. Considering the whole didn’t offer an opinion thing, I’m not surprised.

No, Fear is a choice. It is a necessary feeling that drives many other ones.

Whiskey tango foxtrot Willis, you did it again. If it’s a necessary feeling, it’s not a choice.

No, because when giving an example of a time fear motivates you, your job was the first thing that came to mind.

I work 70 hours/week this time of year. Of course it’s the first thing that came to mind.

Also, the fact that you described the only thing motivating you to continue your job on those days was fear of being homeless. Some people like their jobs, and it is enough to look forward to accomplishing something that drives them into work, not a fear of being homeless.

Millions of people like weekends better than Mondays. If you think they’re all pathetic, that’s your choice, but I’m sure you’re describing plenty of atheists here as well.

You have no evidence for such a prediction. My guess is that I'll be an older version of me.

An older version who found out that work and wife and kids took up too much time to pursue other things he wanted to do. Again, it’s just a matter of hours in the day.

Humility in the form of being humble

Just an aside – that sounds like something the Ben Stiller character in Dodgeball would say.

can be a positive, but the way you subscribe to it is that of a cowardly beaten dog.

That’s not how I describe it, that’s how you interpret it through your bias. The fact that we’re having this discussion on an atheist board shows you’re wrong.

By the way, How does your wife feel about the whole-Love me or I'll beat you- outlook on relationships? Lol, I hope its only Gods that are authorized to beat love out of you in that house. No actual physical effects could ever come from that. Just self deprecating beliefs.

Ah, now I’m a wife beater. So long, douchebag.

[The Reality Salesman01]

I described my opinion based on bias and predisposed notions of your faith. If you could not provide anything to the contrary, and just wish to call it a crappy argument, than fine. It was an open invitation for clarification, I was not suggesting it was true. I even said "I would surmise that..." which clarifies that I do not have all of the data. I would have enjoyed an alternate view, but you just came in and confirmed my notions. By the way, didn't I say "If you want to call it a bad argument, I guess you could"? Where is the disagreement? I certainly did not anticipate my opinion being the end all argument, just a starting block. Discussions of this sort work better as an exchange process you know...

You choose to fear a God, you can decide a different feeling. If you are aware of your fear, and can determine why you are afraid, you can turn it into courage. We are having a disagreement of the applicable uses of the words in the context of which you are applying them to a God you cannot prove. In this context, its a choice.

An older version who found out that work and wife and kids took up too much time to pursue other things he wanted to do. Again, it’s just a matter of hours in the day.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Are we all doomed to fulfill your destiny?

That’s not how I describe it, that’s how you interpret it through your bias. The fact that we’re having this discussion on an atheist board shows you’re wrong.

You've described it precisely how i've interpreted it by confirming my bias. The fact that we're having this discussion on an Atheist forum tells me you are seeking validation and on some level are looking to explore the doubt you supress. Somebody that believed in God 100 percent wouldn't feel the need to explain themselves or subject themselves to such scrutiny. I personally don't give a shit what you believe, i'm on an Atheist board! It's you that crosses over to supress the questioning of alternative views.You responded to my post...Remember?

[Neo-Scholastic]

...I'm having trouble envisioning a reason why one wouldn't be able to just reduce the question from multiple gods to one god.

In Greek polytheism the various gods and goddesses acted capriciously and often at odds with each other. As such obedience to Zeus, for example, would defy Hera. Each god having its own distinct nature gives rise to the dilemma. Since a monotheistic God has only one nature, the good is based on God’s inherently good nature. God does not ignore his own nature when he declares something good. Nor does He need to refer to any standard outside Himself. He serves as His own standard. Thus there is no dilemma.

[Whateverist]

Neither, you dope. He is goodness itself.

So, the former, then? Euthyphro's dilemma doesn't actually have a third answer, Chad.

Not unless ......

















it's actually a trilemma!