Yippee, another new guy.

[Darkstar]

I suppose you could always explore more deeply in secret. Though it might be hard to avoid telling people after a while, especially if you are actively involved with the church. I haven't told anyone in my family yet, but I wasn't super religious beforehand, so it hasn't been terribly difficult to act the part.

[Endo]

It's a simple, non-stupid question.

Believing a comforting lie just shows that you (not you in particular) are content, and do not care about truth. You only believe because you want to believe what you want to believe because you want to believe, ad infinitum.

If you accept the truth, however harsh it may be; you are the stronger person and will be able to live a better life because of it.

I do care about the truth. For me, this is an honest investigation of my beliefs vs. the alternative. For 18 years, God has been "truth". Your "truth" is evolution. I'm not content with my current faith,which means that I need to deepen it through study or change to something else through study of the alternative. Either one is a pursuit of "truth". Please don't discredit my faith as a lie, and I will show the same respect to you. And in the end, there is no absolute proof of evolution. There is only evidence, and evidence does not equal proof.

[Joel]

It's a simple, non-stupid question.

Believing a comforting lie just shows that you (not you in particular) are content, and do not care about truth. You only believe because you want to believe what you want to believe because you want to believe, ad infinitum.

If you accept the truth, however harsh it may be; you are the stronger person and will be able to live a better life because of it.

I do care about the truth. For me, this is an honest investigation of my beliefs vs. the alternative. For 18 years, God has been "truth". Your "truth" is evolution. I'm not content with my current faith,which means that I need to deepen it through study or change to something else through study of the alternative. Either one is a pursuit of "truth". Please don't discredit my faith as a lie, and I will show the same respect to you. And in the end, there is no absolute proof of evolution. There is only evidence, and evidence does not equal proof.

My truth is not evolution, at all! My disbelief is not dependent on my understanding of evolution.
Evolution is a fact, actually. Change in the gene pool of a population over time is factual. It happens.

The theory of human evolution is slightly different, in that it specifies how we got to where we are (though still relying on evolution).

[KichigaiNeko]

Our "truth " is NOT evolution Endo. Our "truth" is investigation and enquiry .... and the acceptance that there may not BE a "truth" as we understand it ...YET. But we keep looking and questioning.


This is atheism, this is being human and not a slave.

[JesusHChrist]

Welcome Endo.

I'm new as well. Former deist, long time atheist bastard pig dog man.

Some things to consider:

1. It is probably always a bad idea to accept propositions without evidence. This is especially true if these propositions are outside the realm of normal, everyday experience.

2. Evolution destroys the Adam and Eve myth -- from genetics we know there were never less than 1000(?) members of homo sapiens. No Adam and Eve means no original sin. No original sin means no need for Jesus. Now the liberal Christian will attempt to save things by claiming some vague process occurred where "sin" somehow got into humans during their evolutionary history. One wonders then did homo erectus have "sin"? Do missionaries need to "save" bonobos? The mind boggles...

3. The Bible is riddled with errors, failed prophecies and contradictions. A quick Google search will provide the details. Since all we know of Jesus and Friends is in the bible, and was written by admitted propagandists, doesn't that make the whole enterprise suspect?

4. "Feeling" something is not necessarily reality.

5. Independently verify claims others make and draw your own conclusions.

[Endo]

Yes, most of the reason that I joined this forum is because I had read about the contradictions and inaccuracies in the Bible, and began to doubt its truth After reading a bit more about the various ways that God has abused humanity in the past, I've progressed down the path to believing that Judaism's God is a very vile being. And since Christianity's God is Judaism's God, I'm not sure that I want to follow Christ anymore. The OT laws talk a lot about killing sinners and subjugating women. I don't agree with God on that issue, and I'm sure that there are a lot of other issues I don't agree with Him on. But still, it's hard to give up 18 years in just one weekend, or even one week. But I'm sure this is another step in a process that's been brewing for several months.

[JesusHChrist]

But still, it's hard to give up 18 years in just one weekend, or even one week. But I'm sure this is another step in a process that's been brewing for several months.

Yeah, it's a process, perhaps a lengthy process for some. Took my girlfriend a few years to completely put it away. Now, she's like an ex-smoker - can't stand religion, theism and it's trappings.

[Joel]

It's not something you have choice over. You either believe it; or you don't.
If you don't believe it, then it's settled. If you do believe it, then you choose whether or not you want to worship that being and be a part of its religion.

[Whateverist]

I do care about the truth. For me, this is an honest investigation of my beliefs vs. the alternative. For 18 years, God has been "truth". Your "truth" is evolution. I'm not content with my current faith,which means that I need to deepen it through study or change to something else through study of the alternative. Either one is a pursuit of "truth". Please don't discredit my faith as a lie, and I will show the same respect to you. And in the end, there is no absolute proof of evolution. There is only evidence, and evidence does not equal proof.

I think you mean "belief" where you have written "truth". The truth for me is I do not know what a god is let alone whether or not one exists. The non-existence of god is not my truth. I also happen not to very much care about gods as I have no experience with them and everything anyone has ever pointed to as an indication of god has always had an alternative explanation. Besides there are so many belief systems out there involving so many gods that even if I were inclined to believe in one I wouldn't know which to choose. As a result I am a bit of a cynic. I assume it is all silly stuff or cultural residue of no real significance.

Of course I could be wrong as I admit not knowing whether or not any gods exist. But even if I am, how do I know that a god wouldn't be pleased with me for reasoning the way I do. Of course if you have accepted the words of the bible or its popular interpretation as authoritative, then you are operating under a lot of assumptions which I dismiss out of hand.

All kidding aside, it is quite possible to be an intelligent person and also be a Christian but you probably must question and test your beliefs as you are doing to get there. There are many examples. But you really should try to get past viewing evolution as being a "truth" that is in competition with "god". Why could not your god (any god) bring about life exactly in the manner revealed by science? Many good Christian scientists accept this. There need be no conflict.

[Endo]

There are a lot of evolution reconciled with God theories and I've considered them in the past, but at the moment, I don't quite like my God. I've undergone quite a bit of change in perception due to this thread.