Yippee, another new guy.

[Aractus]

Welcome Endo!

I'm 18 years old. I was born into a Christian family, and I accepted Christ when I was in kindergarten. I discovered porn when I was 12, and for the past 6 years, I've been struggling with trying to be a good Christian and getting away from it, but recently, I gave up trying. I just went with the flow, did what I wanted to do. A few days ago, a member on another forum sent me a PM about a message defending Christianity and Christians (Are you people okay with Xian? It's much easier to type) from members who had been scarred by the Church and saw all Xians as homophobic, insensitive radical conversionists. I said that most Xians aren't that way, but I only know Californians. Personally, I have homosexual friends, and if they want to know about my faith, I'll tell them, but only if they ask, and then I'll talk to them about homosexuality, and how I think it's wrong, but if you've rejected Christ, then it really doesn't matter. So this guy and I chatted for a few more posts, and I started researching deliberate sin and whatnot, and 2 days ago, I decided to reboot my faith. And it went well at first, I deleted all my porn, returned a few items that I'd kept long enough that one could consider them stolen, prayed a few times, etc.. Then late last night, I started reading about contradictions in the Bible, what the Bible really says about Heaven/Hell, various arguments about the truthfulness of Pauline Christianity, etc.. Now, I'm confused and tired. I don't want to give up Jesus and risk "eternal damnation" as some interpret hell, but "destruction of your immortal soul" isn't as bad. I'd rather be really dead than tortured. But I also don't trust the Bible anymore, and I don't trust my religion anymore. I WANT sin.

Now that the backstory's over, let me express what I wish to learn from this forum. Personally, I don't see evolution as the answer. There's too much lack of evidence for me to believe it (and I know what you're thinking: "There's a lack of evidence for Christianity, you noob!"). It seems a lot more likely to me that someone/something caused the universe's existence. Unless there's a fourth option to the big three: Creationism, ID, Evolution. Please help me.

Well OK, you are very confused with what you've written here. Thankfully, I and a few other decent Xians are here to answer those nagging questions of yours; and the atheists are here to beat their chests.

Let's start with the easy one: Evolution. Evolution is a scientific theory, one which is still poorly presented, but it represents the way the real world works to a certain extent. Heh. I hate dealing with absolutes when it comes to science because science isn't about absolutes, it's about theory and what's possible, what's likely, etc. The process of evolution is real, observable and quite provable. There are many very poor examples that get chosen (see the thread on Swallows Wings), but there are plenty of good examples like Cuckoo bird eggs - it was recently discovered that some birds are extra sensitive to colour (it has been suggested but not proven that this includes a broader wavelengths of light) in an obvious attempt by Evolution to spot the parasitic eggs planted by the Cuckoo birds.

As for Pauline Christianity, besides noting that there are plenty of secular theologians who will spin the Bible any which way they want, wouldn't think be akin to Samaritans who rejected all the books of the Tanakh except for the Pentateuch. I think so.

---

Macroevolution is simply cumulative microevolution. To accept one but not the other is silly.
Like I said: research. There has been observed speciation.

I don't know about that. Would you say that crystallography and chemistry are one and the same thing? Perhaps from a certain perspective they are, and from a certain perspective that are quite different... who's to say?

[Joel]

Macroevolution is simply cumulative microevolution. To accept one but not the other is silly.
Like I said: research. There has been observed speciation.

I don't know about that. Would you say that crystallography and chemistry are one and the same thing? Perhaps from a certain perspective they are, and from a certain perspective that are quite different... who's to say?

That's a good point, but in reality I don't differentiate between macro and microevolution. Macroevolution is really just fictitious nonsense made up by people that want to seem like they've accepted evolution.

[Aractus]

I don't differentiate either FYI - but that isn't to say that there mightn't be legitimate differences to be made.

[Joel]

I don't differentiate either FYI - but that isn't to say that there mightn't be legitimate differences to be made.

That's true, I get where you're coming from.

[archangle]

porn?
go with the flow?
do whatever you want when you want?
keep it long enough it aint stolen?
you want sin?

I aint Christian, but I am not on your side either.
you are a mutt face.

[Joel]

porn?
go with the flow?
do whatever you want when you want?
keep it long enough it aint stolen?
you want sin?

I aint Christian, but I am not on your side either.
you are a mutt face.

Sounds more like a dilute Thelema, or LaVeyan Satanism.

[popeyespappy]

But for me, even billions of years doesn't seem like enough to successfully take a single cell all the way to a human, especially considering the "rats with wings becoming bats" argument.

Rats with wings? Well that's a new one on me. The bones in a bat's wing are essentially the same bones as are found in the forelimbs of any mammal including rats, humans and even whales. For that matter the same basic bones can be found in fish.



I’m afraid the differences between rats and bats aren’t nearly as vast as some might like you to believe. As others have said educate yourself on evolution. A good starting might be Jerry Coyne’s Your Inner Fish.