1984 & A/S/K revisited

[Godscreated]

[Waratah]

Let us focus on what you said godschild, all of it not just part of it.


You have stated quite clearly and consistently that when christ returns you will lose free will. I accept and understand that is what you have said.

Directly after saying that you stated the reason for the loss of free will is due to 'rejection of god'. So far you continue to just ignore this part. Why?

I can easily accept the when you die part you lose free will. Can you please tell me the reason for losing free will when christ returns if it is not because of the rejection of god as you have stated before?

When Christ returns the time for repentance for those who have rejected Christ is over, the ones who want the physical proof will have it, however it want count for much except they get their proof. Remember that scripture teaches salvation comes through faith not proof.
If the knowledge of God is what confuses you in what I've said let me explain. Salvation comes through faith, after this one can come into a belief of God through scripture and prayer, after this one can come to a knowledge of who God is through His revelation whether in scripture or a life situation or direct revelation. Knowledge of God comes after salvation, some times many years, it depends upon the persons desire. I hope this answers your question.

Sorry about that godschild. Totally missed it. But really you have only responded to the question and have totally avoided actually answering the questions since we are talking about free will.

You stated that the reason you lose free will is because of the rejection of god, correct?

We all know the answer is yes because that is what you said. It has became quite clear that if you cannot see that is a condition of "free will", which then throws free will out the window then you are blinded by your faith and you have no ability to reason things out.

[Godscreated]

[Esquilax]

Not literally, no. But what else would you call a choice like this: "You can believe in me or not, you've got free will. But if you don't believe in me, I'm going to send you to a magical land full of pain and suffering when you die, and that'll never end." How can you possibly think that this choice is fair and balanced in any way? How is it that you're unable to see the threat there, the "gun" I was talking about?

If a criminal approached me and offered me a choice thusly: "You can give me your wallet or not, but if you don't I'm going to kneecap you," and I get kneecapped, would you think it's my fault? "What do you want from the guy? He told you what would happen if you didn't give him your wallet!"

The reality of the situation is that, according to your theology, I've been forced into a choice I never wanted, and given heavily punitive measures if I opt to choose one option. How can you possibly think this is consistent with actual free will?

You're comparing God to a criminal, God is not trying to rob you, He wants you to come into a relationship with Him, you don't have to. This entire universe belongs to God everything, even your life. He gave you your life and He has given you everything you have, what kind of criminal gives. Your rejection of His love is where one goes wrong.

So, essentially your answer to my question about the criminal is "yes, I would do exactly that." Hardly a surprising answer, you do see desperate to scrabble to the defense of your god and his every misbehavior. Awfully hard to keep up a rational conversation with someone who's doing that, though.

Also, could you maybe try to be less literal? I'm not implying that god is trying to rob anyone, but that the choice he's offering is just as weighted and unreasonable as the criminal's. In both scenarios you're being positioned to accept one option that you don't necessarily want via the threat of suffering if you choose the alternative.

[Waratah]

Sorry about that godschild. Totally missed it. But really you have only responded to the question and have totally avoided actually answering the questions since we are talking about free will.

You stated that the reason you lose free will is because of the rejection of god, correct?

We all know the answer is yes because that is what you said. It has became quite clear that if you cannot see that is a condition of "free will", which then throws free will out the window then you are blinded by your faith and you have no ability to reason things out.

Yes, I have not denied it. I actually answered your question in my first sentence. Ability to repent = free will choice, you keep this free will choice until you die or the return of Christ, my reasoning is fine this is stated in scripture and it's not my fault you do not want to accept it. The free will we're talking about is from scripture, so why wouldn't you want to find the answer there.

Glad you accept that the rejection of god means that when christ returns then you will lose free will which is not free will really then. Simple isn't it.

My posts have all been about your statement, not scripture. Your choices are as far as I can see are:

* Accept what you wrote was a mistake and state what you really meant. In your own words please, not scripture. Think for yourself, it really is a great thing to do.

* Convince me that my interpretation is incorrect. Have not even attempted to do that.

* Accept my interpretation.


Please remember you are the one that said "...price of rejection people will pay..." which is a cost. NOT FREE. CONDITIONAL. See easy.

I know it is easy but I don't think you will be able to understand being a sheeple.

[Tonus]

Glad you accept that the rejection of god means that when christ returns then you will lose free will which is not free will really then. Simple isn't it.

I think Esquilax has it right-- it's not that we don't have free will in GC's scenario; it's that the choice we're offered is no choice at all, and therefore free will is superfluous. It's meaningless. "Serve me and get the best reward imaginable, or reject me and get the worst punishment imaginable-- you are free to choose."

People who freely reject the offer do not do so on the basis of the offer itself, but on other considerations-- primarily their understanding of the nature of the person making the offer. If you were given the choice based solely on the offer (super awesome reward versus worst punishment ever) then there is no choice. You take the reward every time. Even rats can be trained to press a button to get food, or to avoid pressing a button if it delivers pain.

[Godscreated]

[pocaracas]

[Waratah]

I've made my choice, me and my household will serve the LORD our God. it's you that has to make a choice of whether you will reject Christ or not. Your interpretation is invalid, you're trying to claim my statement. Have you had trouble from your youth about understanding the simple things.

Sounds like the rest of the household does not have free will, YOU have made the choice for the household. Are you a control freak?

[downbeatplumb]

Godschild is an ex-druggie! suddenly his need for a crutch becomes clear.
Isn't it odd that the most fervent believers are the ones who did the most shit in the past!
You come across it time and time again.

I never did any of "that stuff".