Religion/god is just wishful thinking.

[thesummerqueen]

While I can understand your sentiment as an atheist, your assessment is overly simplistic.

I had to give you kudos for this, Chad. I think we atheists do a disservice to ourselves when we try simplify the motivations behind religious belief and claim that there is only one influential factor. It seems only to reinforce the stereotype that atheists just don't "get" religion.

Do I think that fear of death factors into religious beliefs? Absolutely, I do, but to simply assert without evidence that something as complex as the motivations behind religion can be boiled down to one factor is, to me, counterproductive.

People in general, I find, dislike thinking in shades of gray. Finding "one" cause to anything at all is always so much simpler.

[Ryantology]

There is definitely more than a fear of death involved. There is also the cowardice of total submission to authority, the toxic fellowship one feels when they are part of a group which considers itself better than everyone else, the childish desire for ridiculously complex questions to have simple answers, the avarice of desiring a mansion in heaven, the ability to ameliorate one's self-hatred by justifying it with sin, the arrogance which makes one want to be a special snowflake in someone's eyes. For some, it is merely a tool used to gain influence, power or money. At best, it is a social gathering for people who have nothing better to do than waste Sunday mornings going to church and making fun of what their neighbors are wearing.

[downbeatplumb]

God is mixture of things.

A lazy explanation for things people haven't investigated. "God started life by waggling his magic nose"
Justice after life. "That bad man deserved punishment but died before I could kick him in the nuts, He shall be punished by god"
A way to placate the immature children "Granny is in a better place now"
And mishmash of abstract concepts "God is love, god is peace, god is moral" etc etc.

You can see why some societies still cling to the idea it is useful if you don't mind being wrong.

[Darkstar]

People in general, I find, dislike thinking in shades of gray. Finding "one" cause to anything at all is always so much simpler.

Hence, goddidit.

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As for the rest of this thread, I definitely think the reasons for being a theist extend far beyond a simple fear of death.

[Godscreated]

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We know God exists in belief, we learn who He is from revelation, through His word or from Him. Are you so thick headed that you can not understand this, and you make fun of me. Wow.

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Sorry for butting in, but.... yeah...
To me, knowledge and belief are two very different things.... unless you enter the philosophy subforum.

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Oh, then I suppose that scientist do not receive knowledge from the subject they study, seems I heard from them that they do, is this circular too. How about an autobiography, when someone explains to others who they are, that's circular as well, shucks I guess it's back to the drawing board.

You failed to understand your own circularity.... it ends at the last word in your sentence, not half way.
You ask god to receive "knowledge" of god.
Try this exercise: you have no concept of god. How do you receive "knowledge of god"?

I have knowledge of God and knowledge of who He is, so the exercise would be impossible. The knowledge I've been referring to is the knowledge of who God is, not the knowledge of His existence, the latter knowledge comes through faith and belief. So the answer to your question would be faith and belief, but even through faith and belief the revelation comes from God.

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I did not say anything about existence that is assumed, I said received knowledge from to learn about what the thing might be or how it functions. You seem to have the same problem Esquilax does.
As for those scientist they presupposed dark matter exists in order to study it, as a matter of fact they still do, presuppose dark matter.

This is actually still related to existence. You're using circular reasoning for God because you need to presuppose he exists in order to believe you can get information from him that confirms he exists. The scientist simply gets knowledge from what they're studying... prod it, smell it, observe it... what's the problem?

I know He exist through faith and belief, this is the time in which He makes Himself known as a real being. then If one continues to grow with God one will receive knowledge from God about who He truly is. This is linear reasoning, you're the one going in circles, you should stop before you get dizzy and fall you could hurt yourself.

As for dark matter, I don't have a degree in physics so I can't comment on it.

I have no degree in physics, yet I make it appoint to learn some about what science is looking into. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying they investigate it through faith.

[Atheist(KM)]

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Sorry for butting in, but.... yeah...
To me, knowledge and belief are two very different things.... unless you enter the philosophy subforum.

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You failed to understand your own circularity.... it ends at the last word in your sentence, not half way.
You ask god to receive "knowledge" of god.
Try this exercise: you have no concept of god. How do you receive "knowledge of god"?

I have knowledge of God and knowledge of who He is, so the exercise would be impossible. The knowledge I've been referring to is the knowledge of who God is, not the knowledge of His existence, the latter knowledge comes through faith and belief. So the answer to your question would be faith and belief, but even through faith and belief the revelation comes from God.

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I did not say anything about existence that is assumed, I said received knowledge from to learn about what the thing might be or how it functions. You seem to have the same problem Esquilax does.
As for those scientist they presupposed dark matter exists in order to study it, as a matter of fact they still do, presuppose dark matter.

This is actually still related to existence. You're using circular reasoning for God because you need to presuppose he exists in order to believe you can get information from him that confirms he exists. The scientist simply gets knowledge from what they're studying... prod it, smell it, observe it... what's the problem?

I know He exist through faith and belief, this is the time in which He makes Himself known as a real being. then If one continues to grow with God one will receive knowledge from God about who He truly is. This is linear reasoning, you're the one going in circles, you should stop before you get dizzy and fall you could hurt yourself.

As for dark matter, I don't have a degree in physics so I can't comment on it.

I have no degree in physics, yet I make it appoint to learn some about what science is looking into. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying they investigate it through faith.

How do you know ''god'' is real? Can you demonstrate it, knowledge is demonstrable after all. Also which ''god''? How do you know your god is right if I can simply say ''I have received revelation from the flying spaghetti monster I know he's real and if I don't believe Ill end up in his hell'' . In what way if your belief different from this one or, islam, paganism, ,pink unicorn, etc. How is yours any different if the amount of proof is the same along with, using the same logic. So, why should I consider your claim anymore seriously than these religions? Also, if I were a muslim or of another religion I could simply say to you'' the devil has deceived you'' after all, if the devil is real(which he isn't) how do you know you're not being deceived?

[Godscreated]

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Some may be that way, many including myself knows without doubts that the God of the Bible is real. Because you can't get your head around what we actually know is not our fault, nor is it our responsibility to make you change your mind. We received our knowledge of God from God, you can have the same knowledge, all that's needed is to ask God.

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Sorry - but the GODS of the bible cannot be real - and there are LOTS of them in the bible - over 20 named specifically (And not as false gods as well)
THe problem with people who use the "bible" is that they actually have never read the whole thing - and it contains lots of things that they would never believe was in it - if reality acceptors said it.

Gods are CLEARLY human created things to explain to uneducated masses why they should fall in line. We receive no knowledge from gods - and worse -their religions tend to requires acceptance of things that are already proven physically wrong. For centuries - the bible was claimed to be the inerrant inspired word - but over the last few centuries - more and more of the bible has fallen into the category of myth - legend - and outright exaggeration and NONSENSE. THere are lots of things in the bible that are inherently immoral and unethical - that are overlooked by the "faithful".

+ Example - the passover- was simply a story of mass murder done by the god - because the people killed themselves did NOTHING to deserve to be killed - if we are personally responsible and NOT responsible for the sins of another - then the god should be HANGED for what it did in the story.

Thankfully - reality sets in - the passover never happened because Israel was not under bondage to Egypt at the time - it fact it may have not even existed at that time. And as we already know - there is not a single document that can be dated to the supposed time of the christ that even mentions his name - another myth created by religion

YOU may have a right to believe in anything you want to - to claim that your belief does things requires PROOF - something you never give - because no one has ever proven that any god exists. Worse - all we ned to do to determine that the christian religion is false is ask CHRISTIANS - who will gladly give lots of logical reasons why each OTHER denomination is false - leaving none left to consider

You should have read the post before your's, it's quite apparent you have not studied scripture and I doubt you've read the Bible, so how is it you believe you're some kind of authority on the subject.
Many Christians do not read nor study their Bible, but that in no way gives you the right to lump all Christians in one category. Your insult to all of us who spend many years studying the scriptures goes to show you are shallow and immature.
Let's get into proof, why do I need to prove anything to you, my responsibility is to witness of what Christ can do for people, even those who are saved yet need to grow. It's you who wants proof, well my suggestion to you is this go and look for it, ask and be responsible and receive info without immediately dismissing it. God will give you the proof if you truly want it.
As for all the names given to God, they are different praises to describe what God meant to the people at a specific time in history, and all these names remain significant to this day.
You have some real positive statements against God without any knowledge of what you're saying, I would suggest you do research and form your own opinions instead of spouting off what others have lied to you. Grow up and be your own person and not someone's puppet.

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Can you demonstrate that your knowledge of god corresponds to something real? Yeah, I thought not...

I'll give you two, the change in my life, a change I could not of brought about. 2nd your disbelief, figure that one out is you can, hint it will be found in scripture.

[Godscreated]

How do you know ''god'' is real? Can you demonstrate it, knowledge is demonstrable after all.

Through years of living in relationship to Him. The change in my life that I could not have accomplished, of coarse that would take an effort on your part to investigate, but please do, dig up the dirt and then find the change. They're plenty of witnesses to my life.

Also which ''god''? How do you know your god is right if I can simply say ''I have received revelation from the flying spaghetti monster I know he's real and if I don't believe Ill end up in his hell.''

I know my God is the true One for a very simple reason, He called me and gave me the faith to get started see Matt. 13:1-23. He made great changes in my life and no other god has ever approached me in any way. So what has your spaghetti god done with you, has he made your life better, does he comfort you during losses of loved ones, during troubling times and ect. What holy book has he given you to learn more about him.

In what way if your belief different from this one or, islam, paganism, ,pink unicorn, etc. How is yours any different if the amount of proof is the same along with, using the same logic.

My knowledge is of a God who has revealed His love for the world, for myself and for you. My God cares what happens to you, but will not force you to choose Him and is saddened when people reject Him, which is rejecting life itself. The proof belongs to me because I live in a relationship with God and God gives me proof because I desire it. None of the other characters you've mentioned have made a challenge to my God, if they can not challenge Him what good are they.

So, why should I consider your claim anymore seriously than these religions? Also, if I were a muslim or of another religion I could simply say to you'' the devil has deceived you'' after all, if the devil is real(which he isn't) how do you know you're not being deceived?

Satan has not been a challenge to God either, this however is for another thread. You haven't tried any of the others have you, then how is it you think you have anything to compare. If you want to know my God you need to open up to His calling and ask Him to teach you, all I can do is witness what He's done for me.
Satan can only deceive the minds not guarded by God, God promises me this. God says satan can fool all, even the elect if that were possible. Conformation from God I'm protected, as long as I trust Him, He will protect me from such deceit.

[Atheist(KM)]

How do you know ''god'' is real? Can you demonstrate it, knowledge is demonstrable after all.

Through years of living in relationship to Him. The change in my life that I could not have accomplished, of coarse that would take an effort on your part to investigate, but please do, dig up the dirt and then find the change. They're plenty of witnesses to my life.

Also which ''god''? How do you know your god is right if I can simply say ''I have received revelation from the flying spaghetti monster I know he's real and if I don't believe Ill end up in his hell.''

I know my God is the true One for a very simple reason, He called me and gave me the faith to get started see Matt. 13:1-23. He made great changes in my life and no other god has ever approached me in any way. So what has your spaghetti god done with you, has he made your life better, does he comfort you during losses of loved ones, during troubling times and ect. What holy book has he given you to learn more about him.

In what way if your belief different from this one or, islam, paganism, ,pink unicorn, etc. How is yours any different if the amount of proof is the same along with, using the same logic.

My knowledge is of a God who has revealed His love for the world, for myself and for you. My God cares what happens to you, but will not force you to choose Him and is saddened when people reject Him, which is rejecting life itself. The proof belongs to me because I live in a relationship with God and God gives me proof because I desire it. None of the other characters you've mentioned have made a challenge to my God, if they can not challenge Him what good are they.

So, why should I consider your claim anymore seriously than these religions? Also, if I were a muslim or of another religion I could simply say to you'' the devil has deceived you'' after all, if the devil is real(which he isn't) how do you know you're not being deceived?

Satan has not been a challenge to God either, this however is for another thread. You haven't tried any of the others have you, then how is it you think you have anything to compare. If you want to know my God you need to open up to His calling and ask Him to teach you, all I can do is witness what He's done for me.
Satan can only deceive the minds not guarded by God, God promises me this. God says satan can fool all, even the elect if that were possible. Conformation from God I'm protected, as long as I trust Him, He will protect me from such deceit.

So, by your logic if its in my head and I believe it, its real LOL. Again prove it, I read your ''holy book'' and it offers nothing but unproven claims. Yes FSM has given me comfort my life is much more fun and comforting than it was when I believed in your imaginary friend, this one is more fun.I feel much happier as an atheist than I EVER did as a Christian. Also, how can you prove your interpretation is true and other churches are false 38000 different interpretations of that book they all can't be right and, somehow your feeling are infallible, talk about prideful. So again if you can't prove for certain that your ''god'' is God, he is simply just another claim that is extraordinary which requires evidence, like, vampires, unicorns, bigfoot, etc. Just because you have a book doesn't mean squat if it doesn't have EVIDENCE to back it up, all you've proven is its in your head, personal revelation alone isn't evidence, as my FSM example showed.

[Godscreated]

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Through years of living in relationship to Him. The change in my life that I could not have accomplished, of coarse that would take an effort on your part to investigate, but please do, dig up the dirt and then find the change. They're plenty of witnesses to my life.


I know my God is the true One for a very simple reason, He called me and gave me the faith to get started see Matt. 13:1-23. He made great changes in my life and no other god has ever approached me in any way. So what has your spaghetti god done with you, has he made your life better, does he comfort you during losses of loved ones, during troubling times and ect. What holy book has he given you to learn more about him.


My knowledge is of a God who has revealed His love for the world, for myself and for you. My God cares what happens to you, but will not force you to choose Him and is saddened when people reject Him, which is rejecting life itself. The proof belongs to me because I live in a relationship with God and God gives me proof because I desire it. None of the other characters you've mentioned have made a challenge to my God, if they can not challenge Him what good are they.


Satan has not been a challenge to God either, this however is for another thread. You haven't tried any of the others have you, then how is it you think you have anything to compare. If you want to know my God you need to open up to His calling and ask Him to teach you, all I can do is witness what He's done for me.
Satan can only deceive the minds not guarded by God, God promises me this. God says satan can fool all, even the elect if that were possible. Conformation from God I'm protected, as long as I trust Him, He will protect me from such deceit.

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So, by your logic if its in my head and I believe it, its real LOL. Again prove it, I read your ''holy book'' and it offers nothing but unproven claims. Yes FSM has given me comfort my life is much more fun and comforting than it was when I believed in your imaginary friend, this one is more fun.I feel much happier as an atheist than I EVER did as a Christian. Also, how can you prove your interpretation is true and other churches are false 38000 different interpretations of that book they all can't be right and, somehow your feeling are infallible, talk about prideful. So again if you can't prove for certain that your ''god'' is God, he is simply just another claim that is extraordinary which requires evidence, like, vampires, unicorns, bigfoot, etc. Just because you have a book doesn't mean squat if it doesn't have EVIDENCE to back it up, all you've proven is its in your head, personal revelation alone isn't evidence, as my FSM example showed.

That's the best you've got for what I gave you, well...... please try again, this time use your brain.