Who needs the medressahs when you have the internet

[Free Thinker]

http://spectator.org/blog/2013/04/19/dea...lan-tsarna

Apparently, one of the terrorists is being depicted as having been brainwashed by Jihadi videos on youtube.

Thoughts?

[Dawud]

I think that the billionish Muslims in the world aren't terrorists and that the inherently elitist hermeneutic of "if religious then illogical and dangerous" leads many to string together facts into a picture of divisive fear. A picture of divisive fear that belies the simple fact that generally people all around the world just want a peaceful existence.

I fear that this projection of the idea that Muslims are somehow 'invading' the US is actually a cover up of the hurtful reality that they are not infanct invading the West (portrayals of nutcases like the Boston bombers or Osama bin Laden as representative of Muslims is just dishonest). The harsh reality which many don't want to accept are that it is in reality the US and UK establishment who actually are leading their very real and bloody attacks on foreign land to impose THEIR laws and THEIR way of life on a people (any argument that it is just an aim to help raise these people from ignorant suffering to a better way of life just mirrors the Islamist rhetoric).

We wouldn't accept it if Iraqi's came over here with an army to tell us how to live. Generally people wouldn't accept it the other way around too as they know it isn't worth the bloodshed.

The wars in the Middle East which create thousands of battle-hardened US haters were in a massive part made palpable by the continued lie in our media that bombings like those we have seen last week are, in a large part, a Muslim phenomenon.

As long as the media portrays these events as coming from the 'fundamentals' of Islam or from being 'extremely' Muslim: we won't get past the needless bigotry that Muslims are 'the darkside of humanity' by which Westerners must measure their own virtues (we are free -opposed to the Muslim who is not, we are rational opposed to the Muslim who is not etc...)

As long as the recent tragedy isn't hijacked by people who hope to divide society for their own malignant aims - I will be happy.

Peace!

[downbeatplumb]

The wars in the Middle East which create thousands of battle-hardened US haters were in a massive part made palpable by the continued lie in our media that bombings like those we have seen last week are, in a large part, a Muslim phenomenon.

It is a muslim phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Isl...st_attacks

In the same way that the "troubles" in ireland were a christian phenomenon.

[Dawud]

Stupid

[Free Thinker]

Yes, and there are also a billion different kinds of Islam being propagated by these billions of Muslims. Which is the right one? The one that breeds terrorism is just as right to the terrorists themselves as the one you claim preaches peace!

I grew up in a talibanized country and am currently living the nightmare that it has become. An 18 year old female suicide bomber just blew herself today. She also called herself a Muslim.

Just because you believe that Islam holds and preaches certain kind of ideologies is something that is personal to you. But that kind of Islam is not the kind of Islam that these bombers and jihadis subscribe to, who also claim that their way of Islam is .. to them their chosen path is also the right one .. and yours is the wrong one.

How does a normal person decide?

[Dawud]

Look at qualified people - the Taliban is seriously disconnected from the main body if scholars (despite the name).

These phenomenon like sexism and suicide bombing you can see in non-Muslim people to - infact Tamils are extremely pro-suicide bombing.

I would say have faith in humans and most humans who dedicate their lives to studying Islam in the highest of echelons don't support these actions - heck even 'Wahhabi' Saudi are moving towards more rights for women (finally).

I know that there are probably as many Islam's as there are Muslims and non-Muslims who like to pontificate about it but trust that the main body if scholars are not insincere or evil unreasonable people. I have a much more optimistic view of humanity than to think 'atheists' 'Chistians' 'Muslims' are unable to think reasonably or are less mature than people of my own convictions - I suggest that if you are searching for a right Islam (meaning you believe in God and would like to follow His perfect guidance) then don't have a lack of faith that humans who study it won't find a broad consensus. Muslims scholars have always and will always differ in opinion and this is allowed in Islam but there is such a thing as a broad consensus on the essential Guidance that has been given to us and we can benefit from it iA.

Remember something that is often forgotten I. Authoritarian cultures like that in the Indian sub-continent: religion is advice. It doesn't benefit God not harm Him if we follow it of not but if we do we can find success in this life and the next iA.

[The Grand Nudger]

I have yet to see any uniquely religious advice that will lead to success in this life...and as the "next life" is a non-event and little more than a thinly veiled threat coming from this particular corner - I couldn't care less.

Pretty sure that "allah hu ahkbar" plants some shit firmly in the territory of an islamic phenomena. When people start shouting "may the force be with you" before detonating their explosive vests I'll point the finger elsewhere. Until then, perhaps muslims ought to handle their own shit? Do the faith a favor and shoot these fuckers in the head long before they go durka durka, eh? Would save us the fuel we waste on the drones (not that the middle east would want us to stop wasting fuel..mind you).

[downbeatplumb]

Stupid

I agree, murder in the name of a religion is stupid.
I assume that's what you meant because you did not elaborate.

[Free Thinker]

I would say have faith in humans and most humans who dedicate their lives to studying Islam in the highest of echelons don't support these actions - heck even 'Wahhabi' Saudi are moving towards more rights for women (finally).

And therein lies the greatest weakness of the Muslim world as well. The issue is not whether there are Muslims that scream foul when radicals exist within their own community - but if they do, then they are not loud enough - and are over-looked. The peaceful Muslim even though is a majority, is a largely silent and benign majority as well -- one that is too passive to affect change on a large scale.

Secondly, in a way, Muslims who disassociate themselves and their brand of Islam from that of the perpetrating criminals create just as many divides within society as those who use the terrorist brand of Islam to generalize to the larger Muslim population. The solution does not lie in saying "Oh, they were wrong in their interpretation" - but in creating a system of society within their own communities that do not allow that interpretation to exist in the first place.

The Muslim countries that harbour and allow rabid mullah type clerics to continue to propagate the "evil version of Islam" (even if they are wrong) are part of the problem and not the solution. If the "evil" kind of Muslims are like parasites, or a disease - then why is that parasite / disease allowed to fester and exist and even grow like cancers?

[The Grand Nudger]

The silent and peaceful muslim majority is also very quick to defend their terrorists- as we saw above.

Personally, I think that they're doing the work the rest of the ummah lacks the balls to do. On that count, I hold them in the highest regard as fellow combatants, but ultimately, no tears are shed for the death of a soldier ( an honorary title one loses the moment they start willfully targeting civilians). Vae victus.