The Argument From Consciousness

[ebg]

Most athiest either want attention or have emotional issues...that way being an atheist they feel their somehow empowered by being against the norm, or will finally receive the attention from their neglecting parents they have been craving for years. "Look at me Mommy & Daddy, I'm an athesist!" Please...if you want to be special or seek attention go get a job or dress better...get over your inferiority complex and get with the norm...the church will forgive you for your stupidity!

[Darkstar]

Most athiest either want attention or have emotional issues...that way being an atheist they feel their somehow empowered by being against the norm, or will finally receive the attention from their neglecting parents they have been craving for years. "Look at me Mommy & Daddy, I'm an athesist!" Please...if you want to be special or seek attention go get a job or dress better...get over your inferiority complex and get with the norm...the church will forgive you for your stupidity!

In other words...you have no argument (except for ad hominems). What prompted this baseless attack anyway? Did the use of logic offend you?

[FallentoReason]

Most athiest either want attention or have emotional issues...that way being an atheist they feel their somehow empowered by being against the norm, or will finally receive the attention from their neglecting parents they have been craving for years. "Look at me Mommy & Daddy, I'm an athesist!" Please...if you want to be special or seek attention go get a job or dress better...get over your inferiority complex and get with the norm...the church will forgive you for your stupidity!

[Foxaèr]

the church will forgive you for your stupidity!

You should be worrying about your own ignorance and how to remedy it.

[FallentoReason]

(ETA: Another way of looking at the difficulty is to reframe your argument to something along the lines of, for all X such that X is conscious, Y [requires temporality]. I haven't the first clue how to rigorously bound the set of all X that are consciousness in order to demonstrate this, and the fact that there are numerous existents on the planet [in the animal kingdom] for which I can't conclusively say whether or not they belong to the set of all X or not [are conscious] suggests that my definition of what counts as a member of that set is not well enough defined for me to be making arguments about what does and does not belong in that set.)

A good suggestion for making the argument stronger. As of right now, I also wouldn't know how to find out if something belongs to X or not.

ETA: How do you know that you are not a movie that is stuck at frame 1? Not that I value the objection, but your counter-argument seems to fall prey to a variant of Last-Teusday-ism.

Because to think of an objection, time must pass so that I can have any thoughts as to how to object to this.

ETA: ETA: It's also worth noting that if you're attempting to prove a negative, as you are, you require more than simply something that is compelling and persuasive, you need airtight and irrefutable logic, and you don't have that. As an argument that the notion of god is implausible, fine, you may have that; as an argument that god is impossible, you'll need much more than this.

Again, good point. Agreed.

I'm not overly enthusiastic about making this prove a negative; it is what it is, and if it's just an argument that makes the concept implausible, then so be it.

[ebg]

the only logic of an atheist is psuedo knowlege from wikpedia! Must atheist wouldn't even know what scientific proof is...let alone demanding it. How many took trig? Or pass chemistry class with an A average? Know how to do space-time calcs?

[FallentoReason]

the only logic of an atheist is psuedo knowlege from wikpedia!

90% of my threads are original thoughts, thanks very much.

Must atheist wouldn't even know what scientific proof is...

There's no such thing as proofs, only theories which are the best explanation, given the evidence.

let alone demanding it.

It's called "show me the money".

How many took trig?

Me.

Or pass chemistry class with an A average?

Average of B... in my defence, chemical engineering never looked appealing to me!

Know how to do space-time calcs?

No, sadly.


So what's your point? None of this is on topic.

[Foxaèr]

How many took trig? Or pass chemistry class with an A average? Know how to do space-time calcs?

That is irrelevant both to the topic of this thread and to determining intelligence.

[Angrboda]

I'm not overly enthusiastic about making this prove a negative; it is what it is, and if it's just an argument that makes the concept implausible, then so be it.

I'll make one more point for the evening. Given what you say here, I have to wonder just who your intended audience is? Those who are likely to find an argument to God's implausibility persuasive are likely already convinced of his implausibility; those who currently believe in the possibility or reality of God are not going to find an argument toward mere implausibility of any real force in changing their minds.

[FallentoReason]

I'm not overly enthusiastic about making this prove a negative; it is what it is, and if it's just an argument that makes the concept implausible, then so be it.

I'll make one more point for the evening. Given what you say here, I have to wonder just who your intended audience is?

Specifically speaking, Chad Wooters. He requested me to write this up.

Those who are likely to find an argument to God's implausibility persuasive are likely already convinced of his implausibility; those who currently believe in the possibility or reality of God are not going to find an argument toward mere implausibility of any real force in changing their minds.

It's simply one more thing to take into account. Also, let's not forget that the majority of theists joining this site have an agenda; to convert the masses. Quite obviously, I won't be converted because arguments such as this prevent me from believing in their concept, hence they *should* be interested in my opinions on the matter and whether or not a solution can be reached.