Refuting Evolution

[Cato]

Irrelevant
Remember that I don't reject Evolution
I reject stupid (non-intelligent) one only.

Let me get this straight...

You accept evolution as an explanation for speciation except when humans are involved. The fact that our DNA is 98% the same as chimps doesn't give you pause for thought?

One of us isn't using the 2% difference to its maximum effect.

[Muslim Scholar]

I posted a list of non-beneficial mutations in humans a few pages back, ending in the conclusion, based on actual evidence, that it's not so much that non-beneficial mutations aren't documented, but that you are, either willfully or not, ignorant of them.

You really brain washed totally!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, there are some non-beneficial (as we think) mutations
My idea is not denying them.

It is all about statistics
If we assume non-intelligence
There is no way for evolution to know the future, so many non-sense development must exist in all species (in Fossils and even now)
The ratio between non-beneficial and beneficial must be astronomical

[Esquilax]

You really brain washed totally!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, there are some non-beneficial (as we think) mutations
My idea is not denying them.

It is all about statistics
If we assume non-intelligence
There is no way for evolution to know the future, so many non-sense development must exist in all species (in Fossils and even now)
The ratio between non-beneficial and beneficial must be astronomical

Giraffe necks have nerves that loop around from the base to the head and back again, rather than taking the straight route. Dogs have no color vision. There's a kind of goat that, upon being panicked, completely freezes up and falls over. When bees sting, they die. Dogs have dewclaws that are easily damaged. Colossal Squids have donut shaped brains, and their esophagus runs through the center of it; if they swallow something bigger than the hole, they can get brain damage.

I can keep going, if you like?

My contention is two pronged. One: you haven't demonstrated that an unguided evolutionary process would entail a multitude of non beneficial or harmful mutations, you've just asserted it. Science fail one.

Two: insofar as I accept your premise to be true, there are actually tons of documented non-beneficial and harmful mutations out there. You just haven't bothered to do any research, and beyond that, since you've neglected to name an upper limit of what you'd accept as a sufficient number, you're free to just keep moving the goalposts back to an "astronomical" number, over and over again, no matter how much real evidence you're presented with.

You're being dishonest, from top to bottom.

[Dragonetti]

Brainwash? How so?

You take your morals, science, and education from one book written around 700 AD.

We change our view with the learning of new scientific ideas, and you do not.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Brainwash? How so?

You take your morals, science, and education from one book written around 700 AD.

We change our view with the learning of new scientific ideas, and you do not.

Pragmatism is a dangerous concept to those who set their beliefs and behaviours in stone.

[cneron]

The numerous "refutations" of evolution I've heard over the years almost always share one common trait: misrepresentation of what evolution is. Sometimes the misrepresentation is the result of ignorance, willful or otherwise, sometimes it's intentional, but you inevitably hear the same tired crap about tossed coins, transitional forms, self-assembling 747s, the existence of modern apes, irreducibility, hair-splitting over the meaning of "theory" and the term "random chance," blah blah blah, etc., ad nauseam.

Some basics, because I confess I'm not going to bother reading the Quran, all the responses to the original post or the numbered installments that followed it, just to debate an idea that was embraced by educated people more than 150 years ago:

1) Atheism and evolution have nothing to do with one another. There are evolutionists who are not atheists. There are atheists who are not evolutionists.
2) Nobody who understands the theory of evolution ever said man came from apes. They said apes and man shared a common ancestor.
3) Darwin didn't recant on his deathbed, nor it would it have altered reality if he had. The Lady Hope story was a fabrication.
4) Saying that all animals but man have evolved is Human Supremacy, born---as all supremacy movements are---of that fertile couple, Insecurity and Ignorance.
5) Fossilization is the rare exception, not the rule. There have been many billions of plants and animals throughout time, but there are considerably fewer fossils.
6) Random chance is not at the core of the theory of evolution; a simple observable principle is: life forms are affected by outside factors. That's all.
7) Animal breeding and plant hybridizing differ from evolution only in the impetus for change. In the former two examples it's man, in the latter it's nature.
8) Impacted wisdom teeth, inflamed appendixes and spontaneous abortion are the results of either evolution or a stupid designer.
9) A theory is a statement that encompasses and is supported by accepted facts and withstands critical observation. The theory of gravity, for example.
10) Creationism is not a theory. It's an unsupportable prehistoric myth about a magic trick performed by fictional character.

[Muslim Scholar]

The numerous "refutations" of evolution I've heard over the years almost always share one common trait: misrepresentation of what evolution is. Sometimes the misrepresentation is the result of ignorance, willful or otherwise, sometimes it's intentional, but you inevitably hear the same tired crap about tossed coins, transitional forms, self-assembling 747s, the existence of modern apes, irreducibility, hair-splitting over the meaning of "theory" and the term "random chance," blah blah blah, etc., ad nauseam.

Some basics, because I confess I'm not going to bother reading the Quran, all the responses to the original post or the numbered installments that followed it, just to debate an idea that was embraced by educated people more than 150 years ago:

all what you said is just blah blah blah, etc.

1) Atheism and evolution have nothing to do with one another. There are evolutionists who are not atheists. There are atheists who are not evolutionists.

They are two related mental disease that need one treatment.

2) Nobody who understands the theory of evolution ever said man came from apes. They said apes and man shared a common ancestor.

No problem, I'll just follow your beliefs about Evolution!

4) Saying that all animals but man have evolved is Human Supremacy, born---as all supremacy movements are---of that fertile couple, Insecurity and Ignorance.

According to Islam there will be clues in fossils that something similar to human existed
Human (Adam) creation cannot be proved by Fossil record except that you will find a big Gap in human evolution, and it will never be filled.

5) Fossilization is the rare exception, not the rule. There have been many billions of plants and animals throughout time, but there are considerably fewer fossils.

Wrong, Fossils will represent the same logical probability of individual occurrences of any development
So my question still stands; where all the non-sense mutations?

6) Random chance is not at the core of the theory of evolution; a simple observable principles is: life forms are affected by outside factors. That's all.

Very stupid, any random experiment is affected by factors (still random)

8) Impacted wisdom teeth, inflamed appendixes and spontaneous abortion are the results of either evolution or a stupid designer.

Or by a designer who created them like that on purpose, he did not create us to live forever, Asserting something and consider it a fact then using it as refutation is logical cheating.

9) A theory is a statement that encompasses and is supported by accepted facts and withstands critical observation. The theory of gravity, for example.

Evolution is a (not proved theory) it may be possible, but the part about UN-intelligence is a very stupid assertion against logic and science.

10) Creationism is not a theory. It's an unsupportable prehistoric myth about a magic trick performed by fictional character.

Intelligence is proved by logic, statistics and science as well.

---

Brainwash? How so?

You take your morals, science, and education from one book written around 700 AD.

We change our view with the learning of new scientific ideas, and you do not.

Because my beliefs are proved, while yours is based on human errors (and desires)

[Dragonetti]

---

The numerous "refutations" of evolution I've heard over the years almost always share one common trait: misrepresentation of what evolution is. Sometimes the misrepresentation is the result of ignorance, willful or otherwise, sometimes it's intentional, but you inevitably hear the same tired crap about tossed coins, transitional forms, self-assembling 747s, the existence of modern apes, irreducibility, hair-splitting over the meaning of "theory" and the term "random chance," blah blah blah, etc., ad nauseam.

Some basics, because I confess I'm not going to bother reading the Quran, all the responses to the original post or the numbered installments that followed it, just to debate an idea that was embraced by educated people more than 150 years ago:

all what you said is just blah blah blah, etc.

1) Atheism and evolution have nothing to do with one another. There are evolutionists who are not atheists. There are atheists who are not evolutionists.

They are two related mental disease that need one treatment.

2) Nobody who understands the theory of evolution ever said man came from apes. They said apes and man shared a common ancestor.

No problem, I'll just follow your beliefs about Evolution!

4) Saying that all animals but man have evolved is Human Supremacy, born---as all supremacy movements are---of that fertile couple, Insecurity and Ignorance.

According to Islam there will be clues in fossils that something similar to human existed
Human (Adam) creation cannot be proved by Fossil record except that you will find a big Gap in human evolution, and it will never be filled.

5) Fossilization is the rare exception, not the rule. There have been many billions of plants and animals throughout time, but there are considerably fewer fossils.

Wrong, Fossils will represent the same logical probability of individual occurrences of any development
So my question still stands; where all the non-sense mutations?

6) Random chance is not at the core of the theory of evolution; a simple observable principles is: life forms are affected by outside factors. That's all.

Very stupid, any random experiment is affected by factors (still random)

8) Impacted wisdom teeth, inflamed appendixes and spontaneous abortion are the results of either evolution or a stupid designer.

Or by a designer who created them like that on purpose, he did not create us to live forever, Asserting something and consider it a fact then using it as refutation is logical cheating.

9) A theory is a statement that encompasses and is supported by accepted facts and withstands critical observation. The theory of gravity, for example.

Evolution is a (not proved theory) it may be possible, but the part about UN-intelligence is a very stupid assertion against logic and science.

10) Creationism is not a theory. It's an unsupportable prehistoric myth about a magic trick performed by fictional character.

Intelligence is proved by logic, statistics and science as well.

---

Brainwash? How so?

You take your morals, science, and education from one book written around 700 AD.

We change our view with the learning of new scientific ideas, and you do not.

Because my beliefs are proved, while yours is based on human errors (and desires)

---

Oh, this is coming from a person/thing reading a text written in 700AD. Which most of the stories stolen from another religious text written even earlier. Which all precludes to this imaginary super being. The being is not powerful enough to stop world hunger, eradicate evil, stop his/her/it's feeling from being hurt, and stop sickness. That is sure one not so powerful being.

What proof? I do not see picture, data, and new formulas. What does human desires have to do with this? You have the desire to prove your own god in a backhanded way. WOW! Everything you post has been refuted, but you are so blind by your own religion convictions.

[ideologue08]

You take your morals, science, and education from one book written around 700 AD.

...says the person who wants black people turned away from private institutions simply because they are black...right, your morality is spot on (!)

[Dragonetti]

You take your morals, science, and education from one book written around 700 AD.

...says the person who wants black people turned away from private institutions simply because they are black...right, your morality is spot on (!)

Now you are just twisting my words from a different post. I would never associated myself with those people. Also, you are the one who wants to restrict speech, not me. I do belong to a backwards religion, that beats his wife, restricts education, and segregates people base on religion. So, who is the racist now. And, do not go on saying your religion does not spread hate. Someone just got their head chopped off for not being Muslim. Islam has problems, but they refuse to talk about it in the open. Also, they feel persecuted for some reason.

Also, citizens in the USA can take civil action.