Assuming God?

[Baalzebutt]

And I'm not only talking justification in my mind because of emotional events! I'm talking rational thoughts and revelations given to me through my faith in the Lord! It' really amazing!! And it's a real pity that higher education, and intelligence in most cases breeds atheism.

I nominate this for Quote Of The Year.

[little_monkey]

Second that.

[Drich]

Really? Right off the back of me pointing out the enormous egotism of this argument, you're going to use it without a shred of irony?

Noope

I don't believe in Time Lords either, but I love debating the finer points of Doctor Who.

Missed the point completely. If you debate something, on some level you acknoweledge it. If you acknoweledge God enough to debate the 'finer points' you are responsiable for the denial of God in your life.

The point is not that atheists don't believe in a god, as it is that theists do. And there's a lot of theists. And they do things that effect the physical world that we atheists exist in too. So, you know... extant or not, this concept of god does exert a pressure on our lives personally, and our culture in general

Given the number of ex-christian atheists... yeah, I guess so. But beyond that, what's wrong with wanting a sense of community with those who believe the same as you do?

Nothing at all. Just have the marbles to call a spade a spade. If you hate God and those who follow Him then own up to it.

I submit to you that the truth is more important than marching in lockstep with tradition.

what is wrong with wanting a sense of community with those who believe the same as you do?

Damn those atheists, and their... thinking...

What if you sought your wife/husband with only your 'Damn thinking?" would you be with the one your with?

God wants to be what the Hearts wants and is waiting down that road. Not the other one.

If God told you to be at the corner of Park and vine at 5pm, and you were at vine and elm at 6:30pm but figured that because you can see park from elm you had your bases covered, could you expect to see God?

No of course not. For even if you had sight of where you were supposed to be you missed the time that you were supposed to be there.

The problem with trying to "Think" your way to God is none of us have that capacity or ablity to obtain that capacity on our own. Knoweledge of God is a gift given to us, so none can boast. God chose the foolish things of this world to confound the 'educated.'

---

It's impossible to hate something like god that doesn't exist.

keep reading little monkey, keep reading.

What atheists hate are people who impose their religion on everyone else. These people try in every way to get creastionism to be taught in science class, want prayers in class or at official ceremony, paint evolution or global warming as hoaxes. In fact, too many are anti-science, and for good reasons, as science has debunked many of their beloved beliefs. So yeah, we are on opposite sides on too many issues, and the theists are losing BIG.

Keep reading little monkey, Keep reading..

[Faith No More]

Are you going to offer any evidence that atheists here simply hate god instead of disbelieving in him/her/it?

[Undeceived]

Are you going to offer any evidence that atheists here simply hate god instead of disbelieving in him/her/it?

Faith No More, if you could choose, would you want the Biblical God to exist?

[hatsoff]

Knoweledge of God is a gift given to us, so none can boast. God chose the foolish things of this world to confound the 'educated.'

Knowledge cannot be given as a gift in the way you seem to envision. Perhaps you want to say that God gives us belief as a gift. But in order for that belief to constitute knowledge, it must be justified, which means we must see (or readily be able to see) the logical connections between an underlying knowledge base and the belief we aim to justify. (It also means that such logical connections must exist to be seen.)

In particular, there's no way to salvage knowledge of God and avoid dealing with justification, for the very simple reason that justification is a prerequisite to knowledge!

[Esquilax]

Missed the point completely. If you debate something, on some level you acknoweledge it. If you acknoweledge God enough to debate the 'finer points' you are responsiable for the denial of God in your life.

Only it's not denial; denial implies that I know your god exists, I just don't want to admit it. Quite the contrary; I weighed the arguments for and against religion, and came to the conclusion that as yet, the evidence for god doesn't justify belief. There's no denial there, but more to the point, my response was to ronedee asking why an atheist would bother debating about god as an atheist. I get your point, Drich, but it wasn't the point I was responding to.

Nothing at all. Just have the marbles to call a spade a spade. If you hate God and those who follow Him then own up to it.

I don't hate god, Drich. It would be very odd indeed for me to hate something I don't believe in. But I hate what religion does to certain people. I hate the poison that some are determined to extract from their perfect bastion of morality. I hate the determination to ignore science and knowledge and basic equality in favor of outmoded ideals, just because those outmoded ideals are in an old book.

And I hate that it turns normal, otherwise decent people into self righteous know-it-alls who pretend to know the things I believe based on nothing more than the fact that I disagree with them.

what is wrong with wanting a sense of community with those who believe the same as you do?

The fact that there are multiple religions and atheist groups too, should tell you that a sense of community doesn't require rigid adherence to tradition regardless of whether or not it's true, Drich. You can find community anywhere.

What if you sought your wife/husband with only your 'Damn thinking?" would you be with the one your with?

Personally, yes: Luckie's too good a match. Beyond that, come on: there's a difference between subjective, emotional choices and objective facts about the universe. A more accurate reflection of the situation wouldn't be to ask me whether or not I'd be with my lady, but asking me whether or not she would exist if I'd just sought here with intellectual thought. And of course she would, because the deployment of emotion doesn't affect whether or not a thing exists, and you can find anything that does exist without recourse to appeals to emotion.

God wants to be what the Hearts wants and is waiting down that road. Not the other one.

Why would god hand over an effective intelligence and then hide himself from the avenues that using it would take one down?

The problem with trying to "Think" your way to God is none of us have that capacity or ablity to obtain that capacity on our own. Knoweledge of God is a gift given to us, so none can boast. God chose the foolish things of this world to confound the 'educated.'

What does god have against intelligence?

[little_monkey]

It's impossible to hate something like god that doesn't exist.

keep reading little monkey, keep reading.

What atheists hate are people who impose their religion on everyone else. These people try in every way to get creastionism to be taught in science class, want prayers in class or at official ceremony, paint evolution or global warming as hoaxes. In fact, too many are anti-science, and for good reasons, as science has debunked many of their beloved beliefs. So yeah, we are on opposite sides on too many issues, and the theists are losing BIG.

Keep reading little monkey, Keep reading..

So you have no arguments to offer and took this opportunity to troll. Now take your tail between your legs and get lost.

[Faith No More]

Faith No More, if you could choose, would you want the Biblical God to exist?

Whose version? Drich's? Fr0d0's? Goodnews'? Catfish's?

Regardless, even if I were to say no, that does not mean I actually accept that it exists and I actually hate it. I wouldn't want Darth Vader to exist either, but that doesn't mean I think he exists and I hate him.

You have to remember that when atheists talk about your god being horrible and immoral, the only place we are accepting it exists is inside the head of believers. I hate the concept of god you have imagined, but thankfully, it does not exist. To truly hate your god, I would first have to accept that it exists, however, the inability of anyone that believes in it to demonstrate it is anything but a comforting delusion makes it quite easy to dismiss.

[LostLocke]

I don't believe in Time Lords either, but I love debating the finer points of Doctor Who.

Missed the point completely. If you debate something, on some level you acknoweledge it. If you acknoweledge God enough to debate the 'finer points' you are responsiable for the denial of God in your life

So if you debate the Time Lords with him, you are responsible for the denial of the Time Lords in your life?

If you debate Sauron with me, you are responsible for the denial of Suaron in your life?

Acknowledging the concept of something does not mean you believe in the actual existence of that thing.
Again, if you believe that it does mean that, then that means you have to believe in the existence of everything you talk about.

How many times do we have to repeat that idea to believers who keep using it as a 'gotcha'?