Morality

[crud]

Now firstly I just want to make it clear that I don't come from any religion at all. I've been brought up an Atheist, and a very rational thinker.

But, it seems to me that atheism brought to it's logical conclusions is; nihilism... Nietzsche is another who came to this same stance.
That morality is non existent, and the only purpose left of life is to pursuer our own maximum pleasure, by any means necessary.
Love, moral values, and meaning is just an self delusion, no different to the delusion of god.
This seems the only honest conclusion. Just one big vanity fair, where anything goes.

but, this is not something I can agree with... Not simply because of the despair it entails, but because it just doesn't make sense to me in my own personal life, and I doubt it does in yours either!
Despite my love of reason, and distaste for dogma, I can no longer call myself an atheist... unless a solution is presented

So I'm here to ask how you guys deal with this dilemma?
What grounds for morality is there without some type of god(I'd probably prefer the word "consciousness") that we all come from?
nationality? power? science?


ps. Can we leave the red herrings out of the discussion...
I'm not trying to say atheists are evil, or dispute that terrible actions committed are in the name of god, and the nonsense of religion, I'm not denying evolution, and I don't believe in hell.
I want to try and address this from a purely philosophical point of view.



cheers.

[wwjs]

That morality is non existent, and the only purpose left of life is to pursuer our own maximum pleasure, by any means necessary.

That's bullshit. Once I realized that there is no reason to believe in sky daddy I didn't went "hurr durr I can do anything as long as it makes me happy". Most, if not all, of my morality circulates around the Golden Rule. Christians and other "believers" try to portray atheists as walking future murderers because "if he/she/it doesn't believe in god then what stops ... from going apeshit on killing rampage?"

[catfish]

Durc?

[crud]

I'm not trying to portray atheists as walking future murderers, at all! - I tried to make that clear in the original post
In fact, I think in most cases atheists are actually more moral than the theists... because they don't just take their morals from a book, they take them straight from "the heart".

what I'm asking is, what does "from the heart" actually mean?

This sense of what is right and what is wrong, where does it come from?
If ultimately where just pieces of matter, fighting for pleasure and survival.. Then why most of us feel the need to go out of our way to help others?

---

And why are social Darwinian mentalitys (like Hitlers) seen as wrong?

I know this must just sound like the rhetoric you've all heard from the theists.... but it seems to me they actually have a point here

[catfish]

what I'm asking is, what does "from the heart" actually mean?

I am going to have to ask you at what age did you first witness someone doing something that went against "your heart". 4, 8, 20 years old?

[rexbeccarox]

Yes. Yes it does sound like the rhetoric we hear from the theists. The search function is your friend. So is an intro post.

[wwjs]

I'm not trying to portray atheists as walking future murderers, at all!

I wasn't talking about you but about mentality of a lot of Christians and other theists.

what I'm asking is, what does "from the heart" actually mean?

This sense of what is right and what is wrong, where does it come from?
If ultimately where just pieces of matter, fighting for pleasure and survival.. Then why most of us feel the need to go out of our way to help others?

I don't really care about it, but if you want scientific answer then it may come from our evolution. "Hmm maybe if I don't kill that dude we can go hunting together, protect each other from other dudes/animals etc".

[crud]

If it's just the rhetoric you hear all the time... then what are some of the good reply's you give? even a link will do?

I'm not here preaching the gospel.. I've said already I think it's bullshit!
I'm here asking a rational question(or at least what seems like one, to me), whats wrong with that?

[catfish]

Imma gunna call POE and footwear again. (sorry durc)
.

[Rahul]

And why are social Darwinian mentalitys (like Hitlers) seen as wrong?

Ok, Mr. Theist, *grins* we are a social animal. Up until really, really recently our species were in small groups or tribes. Individuals who were cruel, violent, or detrimental to their group were less likely to pass on their genes to future generations.

We also began pair bonding with our mates. This is because our offspring take a really long time to mature. Our babies are basically still fetuses when they are born. A giraffe or deer baby can stand and even run in less than a day. Our babies can't even crawl until they are several months old. Our females needed the continously dedicated assistance of the father. If they did not have this assistance the child was less likely to survive, thereby erasing his genes from future generations.

So, you see, we are a social species.

I am completely without belief in a God. I've also been completely monogamous with my mate for 11 years, married for 10, and have two beautiful daughters, age 8 and 9.

And I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm thrilled to be a dad, and my kids are a joy. A lot of the times we'll take off and do fun stuff like fishing for crawfish with some string and bacon at the pond over at the park.

I reject nihilism as appealing to someone who is a borderline sociopath.

Tribalism is more difficult to work with. Humans start dehumanizing those of other tribes during conflict. The most common example are derogatory terms that one side will start calling members of the other tribe. This helps break down our natural disinclination to slaughter other humans by making them seem non-human.

And hell, now we can kill from a distance, making it even easier.

Hitler approved the Holocaust. But I've never read about him actually personally watching a mass gassing. Heck, I've never read about him visiting a Concentration Camp.

Did he? It would be interesting to read about him actually watching the bodies being thrown in pits and being burned. I doubt it happened.

I read an autobiography from one of the guys who ran one of those camps. He wrote it in jail before he was hung.

He spoke of Nazis that were the most vocal about eliminating the jews going pale-faced and vomiting when they came to actually witness the operations.

They developed the system they did after witnessing what happened to their troops after just having them shoot tons of people. Suicide rates skyrocketed.

They had to find a way to do it more removed. So they ran them into big rooms telling them they were getting deloused and showered. Hell, even handed them bars of soap. Then someone would drop in the canister, they'd wait until the screaming stopped, and then have other jews remove and burn the bodies.