Government is Irrational.

[Faith No More]

I guess "dibs" don't mean jack shit around here...

You just need to learn to share.

[bennyboy]

The definition of a society is a voluntary group of people.

" a voluntary association of individuals for common ends; especially : an organized group working together or periodically meeting because of common interests, beliefs, or profession"

Not what a government is. Government is as much part of society as a group of hostages are to the robbers.

You are incorrect. Stop deceiving people.

Okay dude, look. If you are going to use definitions, be aware that other people have access to Google, too. Among the many definitions of that word, you've carefully selected the only one that supports your position.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/society

Every time you stop at a red light, or walk past a jewelry store without smashing a display case and taking some gold, or allow a person to walk away who has insulted you, you are showing that you accept the terms, and are willing to abide by them.

Nothing to do with the government, I do that without threat of punishment. It's like a religious person saying to someone 'But if you don't have a religion, how would you have morals?'. You don't need punishment to follow a principled and peaceful life.

Again, this is a selfish view. Government isn't all about you. It's about reconciling the needs of many people. Your argument also a strawman/red herring-- I didn't say you need government to do those things; I said that insofar as you follow the rules of society, you ARE an implicit party to the social contract.

You are arguing the wrong points. You are arguing that you aren't part of the social contract, while you clearly are-- because you don't understand what the word means. What you SHOULD be arguing is whether the current government provides a net benefit-- and if it does not, how to go about eliminating or replacing it. But none of this has anything to do with anarchy, which fails as soon as you bring more than about 3 people into social contact.

[Koolay]

Again, this is a selfish view. Government isn't all about you.

Governments have killed hundreds of millions of people in the last 100 years.

But some guy on the internet criticizing government is who you deem selfish.

It's about reconciling the needs of many people.

No, it's not. It's about stealing and threatening to appease the narcissism of predators.

I said that insofar as you follow the rules of society, you ARE an implicit party to the social contract.

No I am not. Nobody owns me.

I follow the law because I would get thrown in a cage otherwise, it's got nothing to do with wanting to honour some false concept.

You are arguing the wrong points. You are arguing that you aren't part of the social contract, while you clearly are--

Well whatever you want to call it, it is enforced upon me and if I don't comply I get thrown in a cage.

current government provides a net benefit--

What's current got to do with it? Governments have never provided benefit, they have only dealt in destruction and fraud.

Stealing, hitting and propagandising people doesn't make the fruit grow. Violent people are just parasitical predators, they don't provide any benefit. Any more than a man taking another man's wallet in the alleyway is benefiting to an economy.

[cratehorus]

the fucks going on here??????????????

[simplexity]

Don't ask cratehorus. It's irrational government guy.

[bennyboy]

Again, this is a selfish view. Government isn't all about you.

Governments have killed hundreds of millions of people in the last 100 years.

But some guy on the internet criticizing government is who you deem selfish.

Humanity has flourished under many different kinds of governments. Does it look like we are in danger of extinction?

No. You have the mindset of a free man-- and that itself is one of the best products of government. Government provides enough social stabilty for you to sit around ranting, while your fridge is stocked and your power is working.

It's about reconciling the needs of many people.

No, it's not. It's about stealing and threatening to appease the narcissism of predators.

You keep saying that, and to some degree it's true that people with power tend to turn it to their own benefit. But let me ask you-- how many people have died on your street this week?

If you think working with a society's rules is so bad, go out into the jungle-- no roads that you are forced to pay for, no hospitals that you are forced to pay for, no police, no nothing. Build a society of one on your own, and tell me government provides no net benefit.

You are like the dumbasses who are against vaccination because people sometimes die or get sick from them. Instead of fixating on things that give you poopie pants, you have to consider the net benefit.

I said that insofar as you follow the rules of society, you ARE an implicit party to the social contract.

No I am not. Nobody owns me.

I follow the law because I would get thrown in a cage otherwise, it's got nothing to do with wanting to honour some false concept.

What you are saying has no relationship to what I'm saying.

You are arguing the wrong points. You are arguing that you aren't part of the social contract, while you clearly are--

Well whatever you want to call it, it is enforced upon me and if I don't comply I get thrown in a cage.

Because humanity, on average, doesn't want people like you running around doing whatever they want. That's kind of the point, actually.

current government provides a net benefit--

What's current got to do with it? Governments have never provided benefit, they have only dealt in destruction and fraud.

Stealing, hitting and propagandising people doesn't make the fruit grow. Violent people are just parasitical predators, they don't provide any benefit. Any more than a man taking another man's wallet in the alleyway is benefiting to an economy.

What you are completely missing is that the reason many Americans HAVE full wallets is that the government provides them enough stability and freedom to pursue plans to make money. Basically, "I'll make it possible for you to make enough money to live easily and have a holiday now and then, and you have to give me back 10%." It's a good deal, dude.

Go out into the jungle, where you will be 100% tax-free, and then show me how much money you have at the end of the year. Your total income will be a couple of coconuts and a case of crotch-rot.


I don't feel that this debate is likely to go anywhere, so I'm going to bow out at this point. My advice to you is this-- if you are really unhappy with your life, then take action to improve it. If you think the government is evil, then campaign-- or choose to ignore the country's laws-- or blow up a government building.

But all this won't change the fact that as soon as you have to work together with another 2 people, you're going to have to establish a provisional government.

[The Grand Nudger]

Your total income will be a couple of coconuts and a case of crotch-rot.

Epic allit..just wanted to mention.

[bennyboy]

Your total income will be a couple of coconuts and a case of crotch-rot.

Epic allit..just wanted to mention.

I take this comment as an implicit contract to read my bad poetry.

The west wind whistled over the snow.
Soft sighs sighed, soothing and so
I listened as nature
All dressed in her whiteness
Spoke softly as I stood in the snow.

[Koolay]

.

Humanity has flourished under many different kinds of governments. Does it look like we are in danger of extinction?

False, free people have made their country flourish, not the criminals.

No. You have the mindset of a free man-- and that itself is one of the best products of government.

I was born free.

Government provides enough social stabilty for you to sit around ranting, while your fridge is stocked and your power is working.

No, private entities provide me social stability. The food is farmed by private farmers, the food is bought at private stores, the fridge is made by a private manufacturer. The Government just raises those costs for me with taxes and regulations on the companies that want to help me.

You keep saying that, and to some degree it's true that people with power tend to turn it to their own benefit. But let me ask you-- how many people have died on your street this week?

So if something is not bleeding everything is okay and it is not worth analysing?

If you think working with a society's rules is so bad, go out into the jungle--

I like society, I don't like criminals.

And don't tell me to do anything, you do not get to speak to me like that.

no roads that you are forced to pay for, no hospitals that you are forced to pay for, no police, no nothing.

False, private entities can provide all of that in better quality and service.

You are like the dumbasses who are against vac

If you are going to insult me, I'm just not going to pretend that you are at all interested in peace. I won't enable your bad behaviour.

[sarcasticgeographer]

Your "freedom from illusion" incarcerates your devotion to semantics, since semantics is the only foundation you have to support your idealism.