Try God...

[Silver]

IF there is NO GOD... Why are YOU here?

Why do you need to come here and state the obvious? Why waste a minute of your valuable, short time on earth with me and the others disproving ghosts?

As impossible a venture as it is, apparently, I am attempting to get theists to see reason by understanding that god does not exist.

[Bad Wolf]

And you are making the claim there is no God. Yet you don't have an answer as to how everything exists.

I think i have explained this to you before rondee. But surprise surprise you ignore it. However I repeat it again this time in the hope you will actual read and acknowledge what I have written:

Atheists do not make the claim: 'there is no god'. Theists claim there is a god, atheism is just a reaction to this claim. Our reaction is: 'we don't believe you'
Do you not see the difference? The difference between: 'We don't believe a god exists' and 'There is no god'. Can you not understand the difference?

---

IF there is NO GOD... Why are YOU here?

Aint it "dumb" to argue about something that doesn't exist?

Why do you need to come here and state the obvious? Why waste a minute of your valuable, short time on earth with me and the others disproving ghosts?

Don't you have better things to do?

You know, i think I have covered this with you as well:
Indeed, it seems stupid to argue over something that doesn't exist. But the problem with God is that whether he exists or not, his religion (Christianity or whatever) influences the world around us. A lot of the time it makes things worse e.g. Crusades, suicide bombers, Christian science.
The reason we don't argue over and try to disprove the existence of ghosts is because they do not affect the world around us. Sure they scare a few people and a few terrible TV shows like 'Ghost hunters' exist, but that the extent of it.
Religion, especially christianity, tries to legislate laws based on their beliefs. Its the main reason why homosexuals are not allowed to get married in certain places in the world. It preaches ignorance and false hope. Just look at some stories in the news: You hear a child dies because their parents were christian scientists and believed that prayer would heal their child instead of taking them to the hospital.
Its for all these reasons above (and probably many more that i have missed out) that we debate over the existence of gods.
If you used the same reasoning you use about religion on any other subject in the world, you would be laughed at and never taken seriously.

[Chas]

And you assert knowledge where there is NONE! What is the Truth?

Unless you have an answer as to how "life" came about, you can't disprove that God created it.

No, we don't claim that. But nor can you prove that he did.

And you are making the claim there is no God. Yet you don't have an answer as to how everything exists.

Let me ask you again.... How did everything come into existence? Unless you can give me a concise answer then you have no grounds for saying that God doesn't exist! Simple.

We are not claiming to be able to prove there are no gods.
"I don't believe there is a god" is not the same statement as "There is no god".
There is no evidence for any gods, therefore I don't have a belief in gods.

I have "personal" evidence of God. So do most who love Him. That's the way He works!

I asked you in another thread (which you people just swap responses like musical chairs) you never answered:

What evidence do you need to fall to your knees and worship God?

Your personal 'evidence' is not evidence. It is your own, not shared, and therefore does not meet the standards of evidence.

"Stuff exists, therefore god." Really. Fucking really?

Why not God? Because you can't see Him? He doesn't fit your idea of a God? You know better than a GOD?!

Why not? Lack of evidence.

Brush-up on your astrophysics. There are many, many things uncertain in the universe, but the one thing that is certain is: "Everything in the universe [came into existence] from [infinite density]" (aka as small as it is now large)!!! Do you have any concept of that statement? The universe [was nothing]! And [came into existence]! You ask by what? I say by who.

And we merely ask "How?" Asking "by who" is presupposionist.

Then how could you make a case against God if you don't know it all?

I don't need to make a case against god - I am making no claim.
You are claiming there is a god, you must make the case.

As I have said over and over again. God is there for those would want Him. This life isn't about God serving man! He gave us life, and a choice. You choose NOT to believe. And until you actually look for Him, you won't find Him.

I could tell you miracle after miracle answered by God...but you still wouldn't believe me... or anyone for that matter.

I believe evidence. There is no evidence of miracles.

It's almost like you don't have any actual answers at all!

But then again... I could say the same for you.

What answers have you provided to me that God doesn't exist?

The complete lack of evidence. Your mental states, feelings, ideas, are not evidence.

[Bad Writer]

So if you tell us that we have to prove your claim, then you are committing a fallacy, proving that you are ignorant. Stop being ignorant!

IF there is NO GOD... Why are YOU here?

I'm here because my parents had sex and my mother gave birth to me. No mystery there.

Aint it "dumb" to argue about something that doesn't exist?

Thanks for revealing how you really feel about your arguments. I feel perfectly fine arguing against your supposed evidence and claims.

Why do you need to come here and state the obvious? Why waste a minute of your valuable, short time on earth with me and the others disproving ghosts?

Stating the obvious is useful for those people that don't see the obvious. I don't disprove ghosts; I simply disbelieve.

Don't you have better things to do?

Define "better things", and then maybe I could take your suggestion. Until then, you have to deal with someone like me dishing out the facts.

At least I, and the others have a cause. From your "logical" pov... you and the others are the ignoramuses.

You disagreeing with my cause doesn't mean I don't have one.

[ronedee]

IF there is NO GOD... Why are YOU here?

I'm here because my parents had sex and my mother gave birth to me. No mystery there.

Aint it "dumb" to argue about something that doesn't exist?

Thanks for revealing how you really feel about your arguments. I feel perfectly fine arguing against your supposed evidence and claims.

Why do you need to come here and state the obvious? Why waste a minute of your valuable, short time on earth with me and the others disproving ghosts?

Stating the obvious is useful for those people that don't see the obvious. I don't disprove ghosts; I simply disbelieve.

Don't you have better things to do?

Define "better things", and then maybe I could take your suggestion. Until then, you have to deal with someone like me dishing out the facts.

At least I, and the others have a cause. From your "logical" pov... you and the others are the ignoramuses.

You disagreeing with my cause doesn't mean I don't have one.

Ask serious questions? Get a multitude of stupid-ass answers!

And people actually kudo this trash?

[Bad Writer]

Ask serious questions? Get a multitude of stupid-ass answers!

I actually thought the one about my parents having sex was pretty clever.

And people actually kudo this trash?

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[Godscreated]

IF there is NO GOD... Why are YOU here?

Why do you need to come here and state the obvious? Why waste a minute of your valuable, short time on earth with me and the others disproving ghosts?

As impossible a venture as it is, apparently, I am attempting to get theists to see reason by understanding that god does not exist.

BWS says you need to prove your positive statement.

[Esquilax]

And you assert knowledge where there is NONE! What is the Truth?

Oh, please don't start going to presuppositional apologetics now... I thought you had at least some modicum of intelligence and integrity...

Truth is that which can be demonstrated to be true. Demonstrated, not asserted. Just saying something is true isn't enough.

Unless you have an answer as to how "life" came about, you can't disprove that God created it.

Nor do I need to. It is the job of the person making the existential claim to prove it exists. And my not having an answer doesn't immediately make the one you cling to true, either.

And you are making the claim there is no God.

No, I'm not. I'm making the claim that I don't believe you based on a lack of evidence. Atheism isn't a position on creator beings, but on gods: since you guys haven't provided evidence for your claims, we don't believe them. That's all. I'll even acknowledge the fact that there could be a creator, even your god. But since you haven't provided evidence sufficient to justify belief in it, I cannot be rationally justified in believing in your god, and therefore, I do not.

Yet you don't have an answer as to how everything exists.

The difference between our positions is that only one of us is still searching for the truth. The other is lazing back, content that he's found it in the first holy book that appealed to him.

Let me ask you again.... How did everything come into existence? Unless you can give me a concise answer then you have no grounds for saying that God doesn't exist! Simple.

Okay, are you listening? I haven't said that god doesn't exist. I've just said that your case for him is too sparse to justify accepting it as true. I'll believe in your god the moment I have evidence that satisfies me, and not a second before.

Also, I don't need an answer: silence does not mean that your answer is true. That's an argument from ignorance: "anyone got anything better? No? Then I must be right!"

I have "personal" evidence of God. So do most who love Him. That's the way He works!

And is your personal evidence enough to justify me believing? I doubt it: revelation is first person. So I'm quite rational to not believe based on your claims of evidence from god. After all, I wouldn't do that with claims of alien abductions, would you?

I asked you in another thread (which you people just swap responses like musical chairs) you never answered:

What evidence do you need to fall to your knees and worship God?

That's a bit of a loaded question. To accept the existence of god, I would need the same sort of evidence for him as I would need for any other claim of existence: repeatable, falsifiable tests. Or a physical presence. Or photographic records that have clearly not been tampered with. Or any number of things: just ask yourself what you would need to believe that, say, a hundred dollar note exists in my wallet. The answers you come to could be broadly applied to my requirements regarding god.

That's not to say I would worship that god: I would believe he exists, but my determination of whether he's worthy of worship, or even basic respect, would come based on his actions. He doesn't get a free pass just because he's stronger than me.

Why not God? Because you can't see Him? He doesn't fit your idea of a God? You know better than a GOD?!

I hope you were joking when you wrote this.

Brush-up on your astrophysics. There are many, many things uncertain in the universe, but the one thing that is certain is: "Everything in the universe [came into existence] from [infinite density]" (aka as small as it is now large)!!! Do you have any concept of that statement? The universe [was nothing]! And [came into existence]! You ask by what? I say by who.

And again, are you able to measure beyond the Planck boundary? Before the big bang? If not, I suggest you stop making declarative claims about what was beyond it. Assumptions make an ass out of you.

Are you kidding me? You have more flavours of atheism around here than Baskin & Robbins!

So then it shouldn't take you very long to find me one that has ever said "life came from nothing!" without providing an explanation of what that means.

Off you go, then.

No. God arranged it so that those who believe would stand out from the fools that believe they know His will.

Gosh, how very convincing.

Then how could you make a case against God if you don't know it all?

Do you know everything? If not, how can you make a case for god? There's nothing special about god that exempts the concept from this whole "if you don't know everything you can't make claims about anything" presuppositional bullshit.

As I have said over and over again. God is there for those would want Him. This life isn't about God serving man! He gave us life, and a choice. You choose NOT to believe. And until you actually look for Him, you won't find Him.

Belief isn't a choice.

I could tell you miracle after miracle answered by God...but you still wouldn't believe me... or anyone for that matter.

What a brilliant way to cover up for a lie: "I could tell you the truth, but you wouldn't believe me." That's just a way to deflect investigation, and to no longer justify the truth.

And to be clear, what I believe means little either, because I can be wrong too. It's what's demonstrable that matters: if you could demonstrate anything at all, then any naysaying I did would be just as irrational as the stuff you're currently doing.

But then again... I could say the same for you.

What answers have you provided to me that God doesn't exist?

The fact that the entire physical universe, all of science, everything that we can demonstrate to be true has not only failed to turn up evidence for a god, but contradicts the biblical accounts entirely not enough for you?

[Bad Writer]

As impossible a venture as it is, apparently, I am attempting to get theists to see reason by understanding that god does not exist.

BWS says you need to prove your positive statement.

Philosophy says it, not I. And that's what he's doing. Indeed, if someone states that "god does not exist", the burden then falls to that person to show why that is. I'm not going to do his work for him, but the points he makes are much more reasonable than the ones that believers in god assert.

[Chas]

Ask serious questions? Get a multitude of stupid-ass answers!

And people actually kudo this trash?

"kudo" is not only not a verb, it's not even a word.