Blind faith and evolution

[Fidel_Castronaut]

theism is dogmatic and atheism is dogmatic so yes they are both religions.

there,

now answer mine,

at what point did inorganic matter turn into an organic life form and what caused it? answer that and you prove that atheism is not dogmatic, fail to answer it and swallow the bitter pill.

Please point me in the direction of the dogmas of atheism so I can abide by them and live my life by their instructions and guidance.

Just a reference will do, and maybe some page numbers.

Thanks.

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its awkward because you are not able to admit that you don't know.

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i am challenging the ideologies that keep this world at war, i call them religion.

And we call you misguided.

Abiogenesis/evolution has precisely nothing to do with atheism.

So you're guilty of fallacious reasoning right off the bat. Want to stop future wars? Perhaps start by not misrepresenting the people you are trying not to fight against.

[christcahinkilla]

i disagree, although that may be your definition of an atheist and that may be the way you approach things and I would congratulate you for that you may want to reconsider your classification as atheist. most atheists do profess to know and they get into long ridiculous arguments with mono-theists about how it all began... neither know and there is not very many that can admit it, scroll up to maelstroms last post to see an example of my statement.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

i disagree, although that may be your definition of an atheist and that may be the way you approach things and I would congratulate you for that you may want to reconsider your classification as atheist. most atheists do profess to know and they get into long ridiculous arguments with mono-theists about how it all began... neither know and there is not very many that can admit it, scroll up to maelstroms last post to see an example of my statement.

I am an agnostic atheist. I haven't proof that there is no god (nonsensical) but I can reject claims of existence based on their lack of evidence.

Atheism = lack of belief in a god or gods.

Nowhere in that description does it also invoke a sudden predisposition to be an expert in abiogenesis, quantum mechanics, string theory and so on. It's simply the above.

Re: arguments about 'how it all began' (nonsensical). You'll notice very few atheists flinging the idea of 'we know x definitely happened' whilst using nothing but a holy book as evidence in which to back it up. Indeed, the very nature of the scientific method to which I, as a skeptic and a rationalist, profess to follow means that I would be a hypocrite if I simply agreed with x because it also agrees with my personal biases and/or beliefs.

This is what separates the theory of evolution and abiogenesis out from creation mythology. The former is very much a testable and verifiable proposition. Do we know 'all' the answers to all the mysteries that exist with this theoretical underpinning? No, and nobody on here is claiming as such except you by strawmanning that we are.

Now creationism on the other hand. Well, you don't have to look too far to see theists proclaiming that their ideas on origin are true. But based on what? A holy book and a belief. There's the difference in layman terms.

Re: maelstrom's comment. I can only assume you mean this?

The Big Bang caused by a singularity, which led to the creation of planet earth, which led to the eventual evolution of life from single celled organisms.

You appear to indicate that this is somehow dogmatic? I'm not following. What maelstrom describes above, whilst parsimonious to the extreme (nothing wrong with that in this instance), is our current best understanding of how "it" began. Note that this is not all based on guesswork. The conclusions of the above have been reached by our current best modelling methodologies and through experiments that have yielded repeat results that conform through correlation.

Saying the above is precisely not the same as saying 'god made us' and then using a holy book to back up that claim. And it's not the same because the former has evidence to back it up, whilst the latter has nothing but personal faith.

[Cyberman]

Most atheists profess to know? How many atheists have you encountered?

Also, simply repeating the same assertions over and over doesn't make them true and isn't fooling anyone. I've invited you to investigate these matters for which you insist there's no evidence. I'm starting to wonder why you seem reluctant to do so.

And please, stop telling us what we believe and what we don't. Nobody here has treated you that way, so please pay us the same courtesy.

[Michael Schubert]

Two distant things and yet some people with blind faith say that they believe in evolution.
Is that possible? Does it make any sense?
Usually blind faith is associated with religion but not always.
Here i am talking about some atheist.
Many atheist believe that by a strange and mysterious combination one born as a human out of nothing due to him-her and other born as plants, worms, insects or animals also out of nothing.

You're sounding a lot like the very-benighted Ray Comfort, who doubts evolution even though he knows nothing about it.

I have said this before many times: Evolution is not accidental. Evolution is a proven fact because paleontologists and other scientists have dug up transitional fossils, and been able to map out family trees of certain species, and determined when different species transitioned to others. The fossils that were buried further down in the dirt and rock were the earliest life forms found. The ones buried further up in the earth were the younger species. Evolution occurs when different individuals mate and have children, who are descended and modified from their parents.

The Holy Bible, on the other hand, says that God created humans, plants, and animals (all species of which looked the same) in six days, when in fact human beings descended from Homo Erectus and Homo Hominids over millions of years. The Holy Bible also claims that God created vegetation and agriculture in a short amount of time, when in fact the Agricultural Revolution (made by humans, not God) went on for thousands of years.

As for evolution of consciousness, morals have been evolving more and more to this day. What you are saying does not really make any sense, because good morals are a social construction in the eye of the beholder

[christcahinkilla]

ok lets try this,

'do good unto others' this is a good idea for society, well then you have to classify yourself as a christian what happens then? you adopt all the other beliefs right because they sucked you in with one thing you agree with, what fools you would say, i would say that too.

'i dont believe in a god until there is proof' this is a rational idea so now you have to classify yourself as an atheist and there are many ideas attached to it no different than religion...

it's not that I disagree with either of those statements but why do the sheep of atheism need to call themselves 'atheist'? it's a title, it's a group and there are many ideas attached to it...most are just anti-ideas of religions ideas

"the god delusion" is one example of this and it is no different than the cults of religion

Why can't you just say I am a person who does not believe in god and my definition of reality is progressing as i learn and grow? why do you have to add yourself to the 'atheist' cult?

[Cyberman]

... Wow.

[Minimalist]

Probably a silly question, but did you do any research before you felt yourself knowledgeable enough to call us ignorant?

I bet he read his fucking bible!

[Fidel_Castronaut]

ok lets try this,

'do good unto others' this is a good idea for society, well then you have to classify yourself as a christian what happens then? you adopt all the other beliefs right because they sucked you in with one thing you agree with, what fools you would say, i would say that too.

You're inferring the golden rule as an example of theistic exclusivism?

The golden rule is not exclusive to and particular religion, or indeed religion per se. Do we have to start another thread that looks into the evolution of morality through the evolution of societies?

No, I already adopt the idea of 'do unto others', but I'm not a Christian, nor a theist of any sort.

'i dont believe in a god until there is proof' this is a rational idea so now you have to classify yourself as an atheist and there are many ideas attached to it no different than religion...

STOP RIGHT THERE.

What is 'attached' to atheism? Where? How? Give examples and show how they support your argument.

it's not that I disagree with either of those statements but why do the sheep of atheism need to call themselves 'atheist'? it's a title, it's a group and there are many ideas attached to it...most are just anti-ideas of religions ideas

I'm dismissing all of this and putting it down to a personal bias you have against either:

1. 'Labels', be they philosophical, ontological, meta-physical or whatever
2. Atheists.

Basically what you're saying is "I define atheism as X and thus every atheist now fits my specific bespoke category and can be straw-manned at will"

"the god delusion" is one example of this and it is no different than the cults of religion

Why can't you just say I am a person who does not believe in god and my definition of reality is progressing as i learn and grow? why do you have to add yourself to the 'atheist' cult?

An atheist cult?

Right, I'm off to bed. Someone else will have to take over and show you now rediculous that concept really is. Atheists happen to agree on a lot of things, but they also happen to disagree on a lot too.

lurk on this forum and others and you'll see atheists at each others throats on almost every subject imaginable, even religion. Why? Because the only thing that we in common, that is synonomous to the label which you define as a 'cult', is a lack of belief in a god or gods. I know exactly where you're trying to steer this debate. You'll proffer an idea that 'all atheists believe in evolution thus atheism = evolutionist". Well, like I said, that's nonsense for so many reasons, and I'm sure come this time tomorrow this thread will have multiple pages explaining why.

Night.

[Whateverist]

ok lets try this,

'do good unto others' this is a good idea for society, well then you have to classify yourself as a christian what happens then? you adopt all the other beliefs right because they sucked you in with one thing you agree with, what fools you would say, i would say that too.

'i dont believe in a god until there is proof' this is a rational idea so now you have to classify yourself as an atheist and there are many ideas attached to it no different than religion...

it's not that I disagree with either of those statements but why do the sheep of atheism need to call themselves 'atheist'? it's a title, it's a group and there are many ideas attached to it...most are just anti-ideas of religions ideas

"the god delusion" is one example of this and it is no different than the cults of religion

Why can't you just say I am a person who does not believe in god and my definition of reality is progressing as i learn and grow? why do you have to add yourself to the 'atheist' cult?

There is so much you do not know, starting with the very meaning of the words you use. You can't really join the party if you can't communicate better than this.

Why do the sheep of atheism call themselves "atheist"? Atheism describes the position of those who respond in the negative to the question "do you believe in gods?" 'Gods' and the 'supernatural' are so poorly defined that the better response to the question would simply be "what the hell are you talking about?" But, "no, no I don't believe in any gods" is probably more polite.

You seem to suppose that atheism is more than that but you are incorrect. The only reason sites like this exist is because of the prevalence of religious thinking in public discourse and the problems that causes.

Evolution is not a tenet of atheism. Neither is TBBT. These are merely two of the areas of science which have been apposed as fit for instruction in public schools in the U.S. for religious reasons. They have nothing to do with atheism and everything to do with the intrusion of religion into the public realm.

People have been very generous with you. Besides being young, are you disturbed in some way? You should take some deep breaths, go do some reading and then come back -if you even want to- when you've had time to reflect.