Atheists are mentally ill

[pineapplebunnybounce]

It only matters so much to me. My existence is but the tiniest blip against the timespan of the cosmos. Even if your God did exist, it wouldn't affect my life. I still wouldn't worship a being whose own scriptures depict him as a vile, murderous monster (even if it describes him directly in the opposite manner).

It would effect your existence somewhat if God does exist, and it wouldn't just be my God he would be your God as well.

But god doesn't exist.

Jesus Christ was not a murderous monster I'm not sure where you're getting that idea.

He had the ability to heal everyone but he didn't. How is he not a murdering monster? He only healed some to prove his point. He also did not bother to visit anyone in other parts of the world at all, dooming them to hell.

The Old Testament may have had an imperfect view of Gods Moral Justice/Law but even there you see portrayals God as a compassionate being who loved his people and saw his creation as "good", who demanded the Jews treat the aliens in their land with respect as they themselves were once aliens in the land of Egypt. There is an emphasis on the equality of man no matter what your race, nation or ethnicity. This was very much stressed by Jesus himself of course.

I doubt you actually read the OT if you think god promoted equality. And I don't worship anything that's good enough. Anything that's worthy of worship would not require worship and would be perfect.

Please keep in mind that all these are only an issue if your god exists, he doesn't.

Wishful thinking. A psychological inability to accept reality. Nothing more.

It's only wishful thinking if you don't really believe it or think it is a rational view to hold in light of the evidence. God/the Bible/Christ gives you a clearer understanding of the true nature of reality and human life as it really is. If it's wrong it's a delusion but atheism would be a delusion if that's wrong. Someone will have to be wrong of course.

Someone has to be wrong. You are.

Wishful thinking is believing in something that isn't in line with reality, that's what you're doing. Opinions don't change facts.

[Sword of Christ]

But god doesn't exist.

How do you know that? Why does the universe exist then? Why is it so finely and precisely tuned? Do we have any independent freewill of our own? Is morality purely what we make up as we go along? These are questions that begin to crop up once you start to reject the concept of God the creator and sustainer of all that exists.

He had the ability to heal everyone but he didn't.

He had the physical and mental limitations of a physical human man as that is what he was. He wasn't say God taking on the form of a human he was fully human like us. He was nonetheless still fully God.

How is he not a murdering monster? He only healed some to prove his point. He also did not bother to visit anyone in other parts of the world at all, dooming them to hell.

This was somewhat before fast international travel, no cars, trains or planes just for horse power. And no couldn't fly around himself like Superman, well perhaps he could levitate himself a bit that may have been demonstrated when he walked on water. It's still walking speed though he wasn't turbo powered. Teleportation/trans-location he could apparently do but only post resurrection, like when he appeared in a locked room before Thomas for instance. God may be unlimited in power but there may be a limit to the amount of power that can be put through a physical human form.

I doubt you actually read the OT if you think god promoted equality. And I don't worship anything that's good enough. Anything that's worthy of worship would not require worship and would be perfect.

Absolutely he did, and also see Jesus's parable of the good Samaritan. Samaritans being a much hated ethnic group for Jews at the time. Jesus did have some degree reluctance to heal non-Jews/pagans as would be typical for a Jewish man of the time but he quickly changed his mind on this, much to the bewilderment of his disciples when he did. So you have both the real humanity of Jesus as a historical man and through him the power of God, and the foundation of our civilization and moral values today.

Please keep in mind that all these are only an issue if your god exists, he doesn't.

Perhaps he does exist but you're just not understanding it?

Someone has to be wrong. You are.

We could be both wrong but one of us will at least be far closer to the truth than the other. Though if atheism is wrong it's going to be spectacularly wrong, it's something of an all or nothing gambit. All it takes is for God to exist. It doesn't even have to be the Christian God or anything to do with Jesus but I'd say that's where to put your money on not Mohammed or Joesph Smith.

Wishful thinking is believing in something that isn't in line with reality, that's what you're doing. Opinions don't change facts.

If God exists then no matter how strong your opinion that he doesn't it won't make him suddenly vanish either. What makes you think your opinion is the right one? What basis do you have for this? It's what you think because it's what you like to think?

[pineapplebunnybounce]

But god doesn't exist.

How do you know that? Why does the universe exist then? Why is it so finely and precisely tuned? Do we have any independent freewill of our own? Is morality purely what we make up as we go along? These are questions that begin to crop up once you start to reject the concept of God the creator and sustainer of all that exists.

In short:
I know your god doesn't exist because he contradicts himself.
Fine tuned argument is backwards.
No.
Yes, evolution has the final word.

The concept of god is not rejected. It is suggested when it isn't needed to explain anything. You internalized it and gave it meaning when it deserves none.

He had the ability to heal everyone but he didn't.

He had the physical and mental limitations of a physical human man as that is what he was. He wasn't say God taking on the form of a human he was fully human like us. He was nonetheless still fully God.

No he didn't have these limitations. A physical human being cannot heal someone by touching them. They cannot walk on water. Unless you're claiming he didn't do these things?

How is he not a murdering monster? He only healed some to prove his point. He also did not bother to visit anyone in other parts of the world at all, dooming them to hell.

This was somewhat before fast international travel, no cars, trains or planes just for horse power. And no couldn't fly around himself like Superman, well perhaps he could levitate himself a bit that may have been demonstrated when he walked on water. It's still walking speed though he wasn't turbo powered. Teleportation/trans-location he could apparently do but only post resurrection, like when he appeared in a locked room before Thomas for instance. God may be unlimited in power but there may be a limit to the amount of power that can be put through a physical human form.

What I bolded: you contradicted yourself.

I doubt you actually read the OT if you think god promoted equality. And I don't worship anything that's good enough. Anything that's worthy of worship would not require worship and would be perfect.

Absolutely he did, and also see Jesus's parable of the good Samaritan. Samaritans being a much hated ethnic group for Jews at the time. Jesus did have some degree reluctance to heal non-Jews/pagans as would be typical for a Jewish man of the time but he quickly changed his mind on this, much to the bewilderment of his disciples when he did. So you have both the real humanity of Jesus as a historical man and through him the power of God, and the foundation of our civilization and moral values today.

The bible promotes slavery. The bible gives less rights to women than men. The bible even has god's own chosen people, who he champions in wars and battles. God picks side all the time, and you're a supreme being and you pick sides that's not equality.

Please keep in mind that all these are only an issue if your god exists, he doesn't.

Perhaps he does exist but you're just not understanding it?

Perhaps he doesn't exist and you're just imagining it. See, I can make statements too.

Someone has to be wrong. You are.

We could be both wrong but one of us will at least be far closer to the truth than the other. Though if atheism is wrong it's going to be spectacularly wrong, it's something of an all or nothing gambit. All it takes is for God to exist. It doesn't even have to be the Christian God or anything to do with Jesus but I'd say that's where to put your money on not Mohammed or Joesph Smith.

I really hate it when people pretend there's only a handful of religion on earth. There are plenty. Just because buddhism, hinduism, taoism isn't a big deal in your society, they are the predominant religions in many parts of the world. Is this pascal's wager? You're assuming way too much by even posing the question.

Wishful thinking is believing in something that isn't in line with reality, that's what you're doing. Opinions don't change facts.

If God exists then no matter how strong your opinion that he doesn't it won't make him suddenly vanish either. What makes you think your opinion is the right one? What basis do you have for this? It's what you think because it's what you like to think?

Correct, it wouldn't make him vanish. But if he doesn't exist however much you believe it won't make him pop into existence.

What makes you think your opinion is the right one? Please answer all those questions you just asked me.

I already said your god doesn't exist because it's too ridiculous a notion and many things in the bible can be disproved.



PS. your post isn't showing cos of your quote tags.

[Silver]

God/the Bible/Christ gives you a clearer understanding of the true nature of reality and human life as it really is.

The bible being a valid representation of modern day morality and reality is like like the Flintstones cartoon being the same.

The bible is nothing more than a primitive and outdated source of man's ideals in relation to the world and answers to questions he could not find any other way except filling in the gaps of knowledge with god.

[Sword of Christ]

I know your god doesn't exist because he contradicts himself.
Fine tuned argument is backwards.
No.
Yes, evolution has the final word.

Are you sure you don't have it backwards by assuming that evolution was non-direction then scaling it up to the universe itself? No the universe is far too complex to be what you think it is, there's just so much much there that we understand about how it formed and what had to be precisely what. If you think there wasn't a direction to life compare the Cambrian to the Carboniferous, compare the Carboniferous to the Permian, from the Permian to the Jurassic and so on. The advancement of both plant and animal life is just simply there and it's plain to see. Humans are the final and end purpose made product of the processes of the universe and of life. You're actually deny what you can physically see, denying what you can't see is one thing, this I can understand.

The concept of god is not rejected. It is suggested when it isn't needed to explain anything. You internalized it and gave it meaning when it deserves none.

God explains literally everything we understand, as well as anything we don't understand and God will explain himself to us through the scriptures. It doesn't mean to say of course that the Bible is a book of science it provides the underpinning of a universe that can be understood by a rational mind. It can be understood this because it was as the Bible insist purposefully made for a reason.

No he didn't have these limitations. A physical human being cannot heal someone by touching them. They cannot walk on water. Unless you're claiming he didn't do these things?

How do you know humans aren't ever capable of doing this? Perhaps it's beyond the capability of the average guy on the street or if they have any capability at all is so subtle as to be unnoticed. If you were to try to remove all of Jesus's paranormal capabilities from the gospels then as Jefferson discovered you're not left with much of a coherent story of the man himself. A man who couldn't heal anyone wouldn't have crowds flocking to him or people cutting holes in his rood in an attempt to get to him. If you believe in God them all of this is perfectly reasonably possible. Bear in mind that these miraculous powers aren't claimed to be limited to Jesus though perhaps he had the highest grade it's possible for a human to have.

What I bolded: you contradicted yourself.

No because Jesus was fully 100% human not a supernatural otherworldly being, not God projecting himself as a human but a normal human man like ourselves. So whatever the human limit of these powers is that will be his limit. In some important way he was also fully God physically incarnated into the human world but it doesn't mean he could do what you're saying he could do due to the fact that he was human.

The bible promotes slavery. The bible gives less rights to women than men. The bible even has god's own chosen people, who he champions in wars and battles. God picks side all the time, and you're a supreme being and you pick sides that's not equality.

We only abolished slavery because of the teachings of Christ to begin with. The abolition movement was inspired directly from Christianity, as was the human rights movement, the gender equality movement and everything else. It all goes back to Jesus and God. This was God manifested in human life, look at the difference he made to world. Again it's like evidence you can see yet you will deny it.

dateline='1377265740']Perhaps he doesn't exist and you're just imagining it. See, I can make statements too.

You're the one dismissing the evidence we can see for ourselves for the existence of God, you're imagining it's not there when it is very clearly there. Be it in the creation and formation of the universe itself or in human life.

I really hate it when people pretend there's only a handful of religion on earth. There are plenty. Just because buddhism, hinduism, taoism isn't a big deal in your society, they are the predominant religions in many parts of the world. Is this pascal's wager? You're assuming way too much by even posing the question.

Christianity is the one with the most evidence, the one that had the biggest impact on the world, the most original, the most rational and the most influential. The other religions have a chance of being true sure, as does atheism/naturalism as a belief. That's the way it is but you go for the best pick of the pack you don't mess around.

dateline='1377265740']Correct, it wouldn't make him vanish. But if he doesn't exist however much you believe it won't make him pop into existence.

If he doesn't he doesn't exist, though I'm telling you he does in fact exist and there are good very reasons to believe this, it's not certainly blind faith or wishful thinking but the real deal.

What makes you think your opinion is the right one? Please answer all those questions you just asked me.

I think given a good outline of why God exists rather than not. You can see how much more sense it would make of the world if he does. All of history, all of human experience, all of science, everything.

I already said your god doesn't exist because it's too ridiculous a notion and many things in the bible can be disproved.

The Bible isn't a history book though it has some history in it, nor is it a book of science. It is a spiritual tool that guides humanity on the true path to God both this and the other side of eternity through Christ. The kingdom heaven in potential being both within and among us right now and Christ is the light that shines the way for humanity on it's journey.

The bible being a valid representation of modern day morality and reality is like like the Flintstones cartoon being the same.

If you think there is some kind of an objective standard of morality independent of the human mind and culture and that we have since the Bronze Age been steadily working upwards towards this apex then we may be on the same page here.

The bible is nothing more than a primitive and outdated source of man's ideals in relation to the world and answers to questions he could not find any other way except filling in the gaps of knowledge with god.

You'll notice that the Bible says absolutely nothing at all about science, it is not a scientific book that gives scientific explanations of the world. Nor does it imply a world ruled and controlled by supernatural beings it portrays a natural order created by God with a purpose. This is compatible with science 100%.

[Silver]

The Bible isn't a history book though it has some history in it, nor is it a book of science. It is a spiritual tool that guides humanity on the true path to God both this and the other side of eternity through Christ. The kingdom heaven in potential being both within and among us right now and Christ is the light that shines the way for humanity.

What a bunch of fictitious hooey.

[Sword of Christ]

What a bunch of fictitious hooey.

The impact Christ had on the world and the our moral systems and our society is clear to see. You do well to point out that we don't keep slaves now, you do well to point out the equality of gender and race, our welfare systems and charities and so on. We have made real progress of some kind which will be difficult for you to deny as based on some kind of fiction. There is real substantial truth in there to be seen if you open your eyes. What you may like to think of as "secular morality" is really Christian morality, this is how Christ shaped our world.

[gall]

What a bunch of fictitious hooey.

The impact Christ had on the world and the our moral systems and our society is clear to see. You do well to point out that we don't keep slaves now, you do well to point out the equality of gender and race, our welfare systems and charities and so on. We have made real progress of some kind which will be difficult for you to deny as based on some kind of fiction. There is real substantial truth in there to be seen if you open your eyes. What you may like to think of as "secular morality" is really Christian morality, this is how Christ shaped our world.

No these things happened in spite of xtianity.

They mostly were promoted by that very religion for thousands of years. Don't even think you can claim the slowly emerging healing that is happening as people begin to move away from these fantasies. The ground you are standing on is so full of holes I would watch your step. I won't even waste my time digging out all the reason in your own book about why you are wrong. I am sure when you comment about the dumbass I am for even claiming that the opposite of what you say is true someone else here that takes pleasure in seeing you eat your words with their proof will come blasting into your arrogant face.

[Silver]

The impact Christ had on the world and the our moral systems and our society is clear to see.

Religion/Jesus does not have a monopoly on morality. Morality existed long before man wrote the fiction book you revere. Morality had to evolve in primitive man for the survival of the clan. It is an anthropologically sound concept.

You do well to point out that we don't keep slaves now, you do well to point out the equality of gender and race, our welfare systems and charities and so on.

You are doing quite well to ignore that black people were slaves due to religion and how the bible supported slavery. You are doing quite well in ignoring that women were not considered as equal to men due to religion and how the bible supported man's absolute control over her. You are forgetting that all the wars created in the name of religion and all the people killed in the name of the witchcraft religion feared does not atone for any type of charity work. You are forgetting that despite charity work, religion is the richest and most powerful organization that truly does nothing to end homelessness or world hunger because its greed is counterproductive to what Jesus stated in relation to getting rid of one's wealth.

We have made real progress of some kind which will be difficult for you to deny as based on some kind of fiction.

Religion has done nothing except hinder progress, which has been made apparent from its disdain of scientific evidence that sheds truth upon the lies of stated religion. History has shown this time and again.

There is real substantial truth in there to be seen if you open your eyes.

The "truth" of which you speak is mere faith, which requires one closing his eyes and believing in something without any evidence to support its existence.

What you may like to think of as "secular morality" is really Christian morality, this is how Christ shaped our world.

Your imaginary friend shaped nothing, except ignorance which spreads like wildfire through the gullible masses.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

I know your god doesn't exist because he contradicts himself.
Fine tuned argument is backwards.
No.
Yes, evolution has the final word.

Are you sure you don't have it backwards by assuming that evolution was non-direction then scaling it up to the universe itself? No the universe is far too complex to be what you think it is, there's just so much much there that we understand about how it formed and what had to be precisely what. If you think there wasn't a direction to life compare the Cambrian to the Carboniferous, compare the Carboniferous to the Permian, from the Permian to the Jurassic and so on. The advancement of both plant and animal life is just simply there and it's plain to see. Humans are the final and end purpose made product of the processes of the universe and of life. You're actually deny what you can physically see, denying what you can't see is one thing, this I can understand.

I didn't assume anything. That's what the evidence points to. This isn't something to squabble over, it's facts, opinions don't change facts. Something that doesn't fit into the laws of physics cease to exist, something that isn't good at surviving cease to survive. So it gives this illusion that only perfect things exist. It's evolution 101. Something that lived in the Jurassic may be illsuited to life on earth today, but we are ill suited to live during the Jurassic period. You're making conclusions that are assuming more than what the evidence suggest.

What I have bolded, you have no way of knowing this. You made that up.

The concept of god is not rejected. It is suggested when it isn't needed to explain anything. You internalized it and gave it meaning when it deserves none.

God explains literally everything we understand, as well as anything we don't understand and God will explain himself to us through the scriptures.

What kind of knowledge has the bible given mankind? Nothing to do with god, just general knowledge, what have we gleaned from it? Name me, ok I'll be generous, 10.

It doesn't mean to say of course that the Bible is a book of science it provides the underpinning of a universe that can be understood by a rational mind.

What does the bible say about physics and the universe? I assume you would qualify as a rational mind to yourself? Please interpret it for us irrational folk.

It can be understood this because it was as the Bible insist purposefully made for a reason.

I don't know what this means.

No he didn't have these limitations. A physical human being cannot heal someone by touching them. They cannot walk on water. Unless you're claiming he didn't do these things?

How do you know humans aren't ever capable of doing this? Perhaps it's beyond the capability of the average guy on the street or if they have any capability at all is so subtle as to be unnoticed. If you were to try to remove all of Jesus's paranormal capabilities from the gospels then as Jefferson discovered you're not left with much of a coherent story of the man himself. A man who couldn't heal anyone wouldn't have crowds flocking to him or people cutting holes in his rood in an attempt to get to him. If you believe in God them all of this is perfectly reasonably possible. Bear in mind that these miraculous powers aren't claimed to be limited to Jesus though perhaps he had the highest grade it's possible for a human to have.

What are you trying to say? So anything that the bible claims that doesn't jive with reality: we don't know enough about reality. Anything that is in line with reality: proof that bible is real. This is the same dishonest arguments muslims tend to use for their Qur'an.

If you take out all the paranormal parts of LOTR, you're left with barely a book. Must mean LOTR is real. I mean why would someone like Bilbo go on a journey unless Gandalf's a real wizard? Why would he follow a mere mortal around like that and put his life in his hands? That's crazy. But if you believe Gandalf's a wizard, it all makes sense and becomes possible.

What I bolded: you contradicted yourself.

No because Jesus was fully 100% human not a supernatural otherworldly being, not God projecting himself as a human but a normal human man like ourselves. So whatever the human limit of these powers is that will be his limit. In some important way he was also fully God physically incarnated into the human world but it doesn't mean he could do what you're saying he could do due to the fact that he was human.

God is unlimited in his power but he cannot change the meaning of natural? Then he's limited by the existing laws of nature.

The bible promotes slavery. The bible gives less rights to women than men. The bible even has god's own chosen people, who he champions in wars and battles. God picks side all the time, and you're a supreme being and you pick sides that's not equality.

We only abolished slavery because of the teachings of Christ to begin with. The abolition movement was inspired directly from Christianity, as was the human rights movement, the gender equality movement and everything else. It all goes back to Jesus and God. This was God manifested in human life, look at the difference he made to world. Again it's like evidence you can see yet you will deny it.

That's not what I was talking about. The bible champions slavery. Are you saying it doesn't?

You're again making conclusions that the evidence don't point to. If someone used the bible to end slavery, the cause could be in this person or it could be in the bible. To claim that it's completely the bible is overreaching.

dateline='1377265740']Perhaps he doesn't exist and you're just imagining it. See, I can make statements too.

You're the one dismissing the evidence we can see for ourselves for the existence of God, you're imagining it's not there when it is very clearly there. Be it in the creation and formation of the universe itself or in human life.

You haven't given any evidence. You're just misinformed about evolution and tend to make hasty conclusions.

I really hate it when people pretend there's only a handful of religion on earth. There are plenty. Just because buddhism, hinduism, taoism isn't a big deal in your society, they are the predominant religions in many parts of the world. Is this pascal's wager? You're assuming way too much by even posing the question.

Christianity is the one with the most evidence, the one that had the biggest impact on the world, the most original, the most rational and the most influential. The other religions have a chance of being true sure, as does atheism/naturalism as a belief. That's the way it is but you go for the best pick of the pack you don't mess around.

So you've studied all these religions and came to that conclusion? There's more evidence for mohammed than for jesus, that I know. the most rational? LOL. Well, you can say a kid is the smartest one in her kindergarten class doesn't mean she gets to make decisions with adults. It's not something to boast about when you're comparing to people who believe in invisible beings.

Atheism is a lack of belief. Naturalism isn't even a thing.

dateline='1377265740']Correct, it wouldn't make him vanish. But if he doesn't exist however much you believe it won't make him pop into existence.

If he doesn't he doesn't exist, though I'm telling you he does in fact exist and there are good very reasons to believe this, it's not certainly blind faith or wishful thinking but the real deal.

I'm not taking your word for it, your methods of reasoning are not at all conservative, which means you overreach and that just leads to mistakes.

What makes you think your opinion is the right one? Please answer all those questions you just asked me.

I think given a good outline of why God exists rather than not. You can see how much more sense it would make of the world if he does. All of history, all of human experience, all of science, everything.

Half of the world's history (I'm again, being generous) went on without mention of your god. I'm from asia, I studied Chinese history, no mention of god or gods. My training is in science, I know theist friends who reject what we're studying because it doesn't work with the bible. So don't make claims like all of science points to god. That's bullshit.

I already said your god doesn't exist because it's too ridiculous a notion and many things in the bible can be disproved.

The Bible isn't a history book though it has some history in it, nor is it a book of science. It is a spiritual tool that guides humanity on the true path to God both this and the other side of eternity through Christ. The kingdom heaven in potential being both within and among us right now and Christ is the light that shines the way for humanity.

[/quote]
In other words, it contradicts known facts, but it helps you believe in god. Ok, I already knew the first part, and the second is not true. Many here have deconverted because of the bible.

The last part is pure crazy.