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Causation, Mind, and Psionics
#1
Causation, Mind, and Psionics
Lately, I have revisited my beliefs about cause. I came across the idea of 'probabilistic cause' wherein cause is examined as probable rather than deterministic outcomes. Most of what I have read seems focuses on epistemology, but I think it has far reaching implications.

Relationships of efficient cause are known only by induction. These causal inferences do not qualify as certain knowledge in the way knowledge gained by deduction is. This uncertainty allows you to consider some, if not all, examples of efficient cause as correlations that vary in strength. For example, in other threads I acknowledge a strong correlation between brain functions and mental states, without accepting a deterministic cause-effect relationship.

As a metaphysical concept, probabalistic causation seems more in line with modern quantum physics, as compared to mechanistic 18th century physics. Based on macroscopic experience you tend to think in terms of solid objects moving smoothly through space. But you know that time-space is pixelated and particles pop in and out of existence from the quantum vacuum. Motion is occurs when a particle cease to exist in one location and randomly appears at another within a field of probability. Despite this new scientific knowledge, the most prominent contemporary philosophers seem not to have reexamined the foundations of their theories about motion and change.

For a long time I have strongly intuited that the Aristotelian causes (final, formal, efficient, and material) still had relevance. As a methodological convention of scientific inquiry, excluding formal and final causes has proven enormously successful. This convention clearly does not give a full picture of reality. Anyone can see this from the fact that mathematics produces knowledge with form as its only consideration, to the exclusion of efficient and material cause.

Probabalistic [efficient] cause presents an opportunity to reintroduce final and formal causes into our understanding of reality. Both allow you to account for mental properties generally dismissed or unexplained by the scientism of materialistic monism.

Today even committed skeptics acknowledge that some rigorously performed psi experiments produce statistically significant results. The thoughts from a 'sender' to a 'receiver' can increase the hit rate of the receivers from 25% to 32%. Apart from fraud, no purely materialistic theory can account for these results. You could say that the sender's intention to send and the receiver's intention to receive qualify as an example of final cause.

Meanwhile, formal cause finds a place by accounting for the character of the probability field that defines objects, by either promoting or thwarting the likelihood of physical events. This solves the mind-body interaction problem of dualism. Brain activity is a highly chaotic system. If mind can manipulate chance, in the same way psi experiments have shown, a very small 'push' at the quantum level (Penrose, etc.) would affect how the
physical body behaves. In this process, mental properties, including free will, are preserved.
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#2
RE: Causation, Mind, and Psionics
Wow. That's a lot of ideas for one post.

First of all, I want to see links for this, because I'm pretty dubious that these results are generally accepted:
Quote:Today even committed skeptics acknowledge that some rigorously performed psi experiments produce statistically significant results. The thoughts from a 'sender' to a 'receiver' can increase the hit rate of the receivers from 25% to 32%.

Second, I'm not sure why you are calling probabilistic cause efficient cause.

Quote:But you know that time-space is pixelated and particles pop in and out of existence from the quantum vacuum. Motion is occurs when a particle cease to exist in one location and randomly appears at another within a field of probability. Despite this new scientific knowledge
I don't know that. Is it considered scientific fact? I once argued that the pixelation of timespace not only explained the limitations of the speed of light, but also determined its velocity; I got forum-raped and generally mocked for thinking on my own. Here it is:



I agree with you about science. The problem is that it uses inductive reasoning to arrive at "sensible" conclusions, and then does a tricky little shell game where those conclusions are treated as proven fact, and used as givens for deductive reasoning. Then you get statements like, "Well, obviously the brain creates mind," or even, "It's obvious that the mind is just brain function."

I have ideas about some of your other comments, but I'd really like to see those links first. Big Grin
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#3
RE: Causation, Mind, and Psionics
It should be noted that quantum mechanics is entirely deterministic. What is not deterministic is our measurement's interference with the system, i.e to measure the system at all you have to interfere with and inescapably change it. Correct me if I'm wrong Joe, but I think that's a fairly accurate description.
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#4
RE: Causation, Mind, and Psionics
(September 9, 2013 at 9:45 pm)bennyboy Wrote: First of all, I want to see links for this, because I'm pretty dubious that these results are generally accepted
Not really generally accepted. Controversy still exists. I may have overstated the case. That said, I often come across quotes by skeptics that accept the findings but not the conclusions. Here is one example:

LINK
As for the rest, I have ordered scans of the articles from the library.

(September 9, 2013 at 9:45 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Second, I'm not sure why you are calling probabilistic cause efficient cause.
I'm trying to preserve the distinction between the modern use of the word 'cause' and the other 4 types of cause. At the same time, I am saying that probabilistic cause performs the same function as efficient cause as understood by the Scholastics.

(September 9, 2013 at 9:45 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Is it considered scientific fact? ...the pixelation of timespace ...
I would say it is. The Plank-scales for time and space represent the smallest possible quantity of either one. Space and time at that scale cease to be dividable. That indivisablity gives the universe a maximum resolution so to speak.

(September 10, 2013 at 1:14 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: It should be noted that quantum mechanics is entirely deterministic.
Before you can assert that something is deterministic you must have a philosophy of causation in place that supports it. Hence the OP. A purely mechanistic understanding of cause would support what you say about quantum mechanics, though not decisively. Yours would be one interpretation of quantum phenomena.
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#5
RE: Causation, Mind, and Psionics
(September 10, 2013 at 7:59 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:
(September 9, 2013 at 9:45 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Is it considered scientific fact? ...the pixelation of timespace ...
I would say it is. The Plank-scales for time and space represent the smallest possible quantity of either one. Space and time at that scale cease to be dividable. That indivisablity gives the universe a maximum resolution so to speak.

I'm curious to find the numbers. Based on my theory about the speed of light, given the size of atomic space, then I think I can demonstrate the "length" of atomic time.
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#6
RE: Causation, Mind, and Psionics
(September 9, 2013 at 8:55 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Today even committed skeptics acknowledge that some rigorously performed psi experiments produce statistically significant results. The thoughts from a 'sender' to a 'receiver' can increase the hit rate of the receivers from 25% to 32%. Apart from fraud, no purely materialistic theory can account for these results. You could say that the sender's intention to send and the receiver's intention to receive qualify as an example of final cause.

I'll need a citation or two for that, because I think that's bullshit.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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#7
RE: Causation, Mind, and Psionics
Wooters is trying to say his intuition about god is reliable because his intuition tells him he is psychic.
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#8
RE: Causation, Mind, and Psionics
A skeptical researcher with positive resultsThe last line is particularly interesting, because heaven knows these results cannot be psi.



Admittedly Radin is a biased source, but must be the source of my 32% information.

Chuck, my intuition is more reliable than your certainty.
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#9
RE: Causation, Mind, and Psionics
(September 10, 2013 at 1:14 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: It should be noted that quantum mechanics is entirely deterministic. What is not deterministic is our measurement's interference with the system, i.e to measure the system at all you have to interfere with and inescapably change it. Correct me if I'm wrong Joe, but I think that's a fairly accurate description.

If one is incapable of accurately measuring a quantum system, how does one conclude that such an unmeasurable system is deterministic?
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#10
RE: Causation, Mind, and Psionics
That was a very entertaining video. I love the closing cartoon! Smile
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